On Addiction - The Source

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

You're listening to the Sage Hill podcast on addiction with Dr. Chip Dodd and Phil Herndon. This is a new weekly podcast recorded at the Center for Professional Excellence. Hey, everybody. Welcome back in. Sage Hill Podcast today from Center for Professional Excellence in Murfreesboro. I'm here with Chip Dodd. Hello, Chip. Hey, Phil. How you doing? I'm doing alright. Good to see you. We're, good to see you. It's so good to see you. I saw you about five minutes ago. I saw you about five minutes ago. I saw you about five minutes ago. I saw you about five minutes ago. 08:00 this morning. 08:00 this morning when we did staffing. Yes, sir. We're actually actually, recording the podcast. It's basically right after lunch before we get back to,

our real work. True. You know? True. So we've been talking about addiction, and I believe this is our keep on talking about addiction and recovery. Right? Because that seems really important. Well, according to that first broadcast, we did. I hope some of you guys heard that, especially the old, CPE guys just to confirm it for yourselves and and, and and everyone. We're we're living in the midst of a pandemic. In fact, that's what our first first podcast was about. In fact, a dear friend of ours, shared a story this morning. A 40 year old, wonderful, a niece of hers, was, hit by a car, and the first story was that she was out jogging. It turns out that this valedictorian from college, sort of a homecoming queen, stable, you know, religious life, all those sorts of things, was, driving from, Alabama to Birmingham, stopped at a small town on the way north, and, was drunk, was going to go to a hotel to sleep it off, ran across the highway to a liquor store because she needed something to drink and got hit by a car, and then she was discovered as an alcoholic, severe. Discovered, which means you know good and well she wasn't discovered. You know good and well there were people around her that knew it and did not know it, may have said something or didn't say something, but it's amazing how this disease is not just affecting one person, but anybody who's connected to anyone else. It's affecting a lot of people. We know it. It's a it's a contagion, not just a pandemic, but it's also a contagious sickness mainly attributing its sickness to families, right, which is what we're talking about the development of addiction today. Yeah. You know that I was gonna yeah. I was,

kind of segue to that because the if you of course, we saw her photograph. Yes. And if you were looking for the face of addiction or the face of alcoholism, she's way down the list just in terms of outer appearance. Never would have seen it. Not in a million years. No. Best schools, education, stable family. So and and we've discovered a five times a legal limit Yeah. Blood alcohol level. Which is means you've been either somebody poisoned you and poured it down your throat, or you've been at it for quite some time. And so which begs the question. You see a young person like this, and she's dead. She's gone. So the question is how in the world, given what appears to be her story, stability, best schools, all that, how does this thing develop? That's kind of topic of today, like the development of addiction. Yeah. How does it develop? And then,

honestly, yeah, we'll just do how does it develop today. And then next next time, next week, we'll get together, and and we'll do the paradigm of recovery k. That that we don't wanna always dwell on the problem. But right now, emotionally, I am sort of focused when I look around for compassionate reasons and passionate reasons. Mhmm. I'm really focused on, really kind of like you and I both are sort of town criers, sort of sending out the message, not what time it is, but what's coming to our town and to every town. You know, Sonya and I used to, years and years ago, and I was early in recovery myself, and also, began to work in the field, you know, the field of knowing what's behind people's front doors because I was working with people who were, you know, fighting to get recovery, telling the truth about themselves. And we were going for a walk, and, very night, we walked across the highway. Sonia was pregnant with our first child. We'd walk across the highway from the, you know, the the lower socioeconomic realm into this nice neighborhood kind of thing. Uh-huh. And we walked, and there was a time before I knew what I knew that I sort of thought I was the only one, and where I came from was the only place. You know, behind our front door, nobody knew, but because, and and we used to go by these wealthy people's houses, and I would kinda, you know I wouldn't look in their windows, but I from the curb, I'd kinda glance in, and it looked like perfect places, perfect houses. Sometimes I could see, you know, maybe the television's on. I just pictured, you know, having a glass of iced tea and sitting back and everything just sweetness and light. And then, you know, comparing my outsides to, my insides rather to their outsides, and, boy, I wound up walking on the curb. Oh, you didn't have to go back across the highway when I was finished. The old shank thing. Right? You know the story. I do. Everybody's better, and I gotta prove myself to everybody. And then in recovery, we end up finding out, especially because we've been fortunate enough to work in this field, behind every front door behind every front door, if that front door hadn't been opened to the outside world and, the breeze come through, so to speak, and the lights come on, we know there's something being hidden behind it. Yeah. And that begins the process of what, the ground or the petri dish in which the infection of, addiction grows. And, addiction, the disease of addiction, is is made up of two significant sources end up becoming the disease of addiction. First, there's genetic susceptibility, which means that you're you're born with a DNA blueprint that act when you you can't read it, but you can read your history, And if there is some form of obsessive compulsive sets of actions that somebody in your family has had, then there's a very high likelihood that you're genetically susceptible. Or if there's somebody in your background that you know the name of the person, but you know nothing about them, or you you go ahead. You know what I'm talking about?

There's a gallery of them. Go ahead. And and, you know, there were people in my family that we we knew as kids not to say their names. Yeah. That that that that person was somebody we didn't talk about. Mhmm. And, I can think of three right now. You said you had a gallery. Yeah. I got a few. But I could just think of three in the moment. So genetic susceptibility, which means it's a blueprint, it's wiring, and once that wiring or that trigger gets touched or gets turned on, then the genet genetics take over. In other words, if a person has an alcoholic, genetic susceptibility, if the need for that is triggered, then the person will fulfill that genetic susceptibility. Same way with ulcers, arthritis, cancer, you know, codes, right? But the thing about that can prevent the trigger from ever being turned on, because it's a twofold process to develop addiction. Genetic susceptibility plus growing up in a world where it's there is emotional avoidance. Genetic susceptibility plus emotional avoidance equals disease, which means there's gotta be do we have to do something to make that disease go away, which means we become, compulsive, obsessed, and compulsed around some form of action to make our feelings go away. And that action that we take makes our feelings suppressed, which means we trigger our genetic susceptibility. If we grew up in places in which emotional health was of paramount importance, which means feeling your feelings, telling the truth about them, giving them over to the process. You have room to experiment with the struggle of living. You have the the family has a wide bandwidth of from grief one all the way to celebration 10 versus keeping oneself in a stoic position of five and five, so to speak, you know, keeping the bandwidth of feeling small. And just because a family's big and reactive, slapping things, shoving things, you know, big exuberance and intensity doesn't mean they're good at feelings. Yeah. You know, because reactions aren't feelings, which we can talk about some other time. So, genetic susceptibility plus emotional avoidance equals an outcome that is called the disease of addiction, whether it's addiction to control, addiction to, achievement, which leads to needing rest from those things, which we'll talk about next week, leads to addiction to lust, sex, alcohol, drugs, and just it's a take off from there. Anything that changes the way I feel so I can continue to avoid the way I feel. Emotional avoidance is the key that either unlock, the key that unlocks the genetics and emotional expression and health is the key that never has to be picked up so that the the genetic susceptibility can remain locked away. Isn't that amazing? Amazing. It's true. So we do have some some influence of our genetics, but we don't have control over our genetics.

So this emotional avoidance piece, which is which is the one that you can see. Yeah. You experience emotional void denial, for instance. That's the kind of the famous one that that that's also a word. I think what I was getting at was you can't you can't see genetic with the naked eye, but you you can experience a person who's in emotional avoidance Yeah. Through one of the isms, like you mentioned Yeah. Or denial. We we were talking about denial before we started taping here, but Yeah. That's that's the big one. Yeah. You know, if if well, you and I look reality is you and I grew up in in homes with different expressions of emotional avoidance. Right? Now speak for yourself. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. They're just talking to gallery, those other people. But, we know that in a family that focuses on emotional avoidance, that that thing becomes the, the elephant in the room. That that that's sort of in our consciousness now to talk about the elephant in the room, the thing that's avoided and not talked about. Now the thing is every human being is born as an emotional and spiritual creature. We're created literally to use our feelings, to express our hearts, to remain known and connected to people we care about, and known and connected to the God who created us. I mean, we're literally wired for connection, not wired, for, disease in terms of the the addiction. We're not wired to have to fulfill disease, rather. So if you're growing up in a world where, emotional avoidance is is important or maintaining the status quo, two things have to happen. Addiction is built on the defense of denial and the defense of dissociation. Two guaranteed experiences for a child growing up in in a world of emotional avoidance. Number one, they have to dissociate from their emotional and spiritual makeup, and two, they have to deny that they're affected by what's going on around them. Right? Yeah. And we know denial literally means, blindness. So a child literally has to go blind to remain, important and to fit into a family that requires that they avoid emotion. So there's somebody in the family that you have to avoid, exposing. Avoid, telling the truth about what you experience when they do what they do. You can't expose that, you live in fear, or you're hurt, or you're sad, or you're lonely, or you're angry, or it will get worse, or you'll be threatened with being expelled, or threatened with being aggressively punished, or some other form of of of threat, you know? Yeah. So denial means that I can't see what's going on around here, and I better not, and therefore I don't. So it's it's it's like it's like using the conscious mind to put our conscious mind to sleep. So I can't see, I don't see, and the purpose of not seeing is so that I won't wind up feeling, because seeing and feeling are very highly connected. Right? You know, we see a car wreck. We immediately feel fear Mhmm. Because we we, you know, in terms of that that we recognize what that means and what can happen. So I don't see, so I won't feel. I don't feel because when I start feeling, I wind up needing. I don't need because if I wind up needing, I'm going to start talking about what's going on inside of me, and if I talk about what's going on inside of me, I wind up trusting that somebody might care to do something about it. So denial is a form of staying safe from getting harmed or hurt, and it also denial is required to support the addict in the family, the depressed person, the addict, the rager, the the person that can't tolerate feelings in the family everybody dances around, you have to go into denial to be cared about by that person. And you know the enabler is somebody that teaches a child how to go about living in denial. Yeah. That's a sad one too. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. Talk about that. You know, just

no. You you've used the word family over and over, rightly so. You know, the one of the oldest adages in the world is addiction is a family disease. It is. And we do a lot of work here, of course. Yeah. And I remember the first time I ran into someone telling me, like, hey. The addict in your family feel you knew that person was off, unsafe, reckless, volatile, dangerous. It's the other one that taught you how to be sick. Yes. That enabling parent. Yeah. That was a that was a shock and dark wake up call. Because that other person is the one that we tend to cling to Yeah. As knowing what to do Uh-huh. The one that really cares when actually they're teaching the poisonous ways of living to survive. Yeah. And so the the children end up getting used by the enabler. The addict supports the being used, and the enabler basically feeds the children's sickness as a way to keep the status quo, you know? So denial, and then denial requires that the child dissociate, which really means the child no longer associates with their own heart. Right? So it's like the brain and the heart distance from each other. We become we go into our heads. We start figuring instead of paying attention to feeling, and all of our figuring is about doing whatever we gotta do to hide our feelings. Mhmm. Bam. Now we're already set up. We become addicted to control other people and management of our environment before we ever find relief from them. So a person really has to be in denial and dissociated to actually become what we think of as a classic addict. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And

we see it every day. You and I ourselves are are examples of this. A child, dissociated child who's in denial, who's tough and moral and smart will will do great things Yes. Quote, unquote Yeah. Despite the being those two d territory, being deep in denial and deeply dissociated. You bet. And that's one of the big, you know, wake up calls or one of the big traumatic events of a, man or woman's life professional man or woman's life. Yeah. The professionals that we treat, they've taken that circumstance that they were, experiencing, have clung to their denial Mhmm. Remained dissociated, and in the sheer what would you call it? Sheer energy of survival. Mhmm. They've taken that living capacity and channeled it into, I'll do whatever it takes to how would you fill in the blank?

Succeed, perform, survive, carve out some kind of life Become untouchable, unfilled, powerful. Every professional that we've treated over the years, these extraordinary people, they became approval seekers, which means they read people to see what they have to do to to make everything okay, to make sure that they're in control and are doing good. They're achievement oriented. I mean, they have trophies where they hide the trophies or show the trophies. They've had a lot of them. Right? True. These people are caretakers, not caregivers so much, but caretakers. Mhmm. They really assume responsibility for the well-being, internal well-being of other people. Yeah. So they live they're only as good as their last performance or the last person they please, and then lastly, they become people pleasers. If people aren't happy with them, they're either resentful, secretly seething, or they're scared to death. Mhmm. Do you know? So these achievers, these professionals, ironically, they grow up sort of enslaved by other people's attitudes and facial expressions towards them, and they're always fighting to be more than they need to have to be by making sure that they're in control of those people's faces. So does that make sense? Oh, yeah. And the way that happens is

addiction. Yes. Going to that shortcut. You called it a couple of times ago a shortcut, not paying the price of fully living. They go to that. Mhmm. Yes. They do. Okay. Well alright. That was a that was a a softball. I I missed it. That's okay. No. Well Sonia said, I I I really thought you'd be better than that. Hell, I'm 60. Well, what I was getting at was was, you know, if you going round round the clock face around the block we've gone today Yeah. Is like where we started was. Where does this thing come from? Yeah. Okay. It comes from genetic successibility success is that the word? Susceptibility. That that too? Susceptibility. Spell it. I can say it. I can't spell it. We'll cover for each other. And,

you know, emotional avoidance in mainly in the territory of dissociation and denial. And you get a person in dissociation and denial, they're gonna act out their lives rather than speak the truth from inside of their lives? For for the sake of life. I mean, they might not know it. In fact, denial means you can't, and dissociation means you don't wanna get to know who you left behind and don't want to because it's terrifying. So that person's really is always living on the edge of anxiety. Right? Yes. So when a person runs out of gas, so to speak, in terms of achievement and caregiving, caretaking rather and people pleasing, we we have to find the next territory of relief. Mhmm. When caretaking and approval seeking and achievement is no longer relieving my internal struggle, you know, I'm what's pushed down wants to rise, and and I'm always wanting to live, and my constriction says, shut your mouth and stay down Mhmm. Then it's amazing on some kind of addictive process to get relief from my original addictive process Mhmm. Occurs. Alcohol comes into play. It can be when you're young or old. It doesn't matter. Alcohol, drugs, the secrets around lust, sexual acting out, gambling, back to more work addiction, but somewhere that person's gonna find something to soothe the anxiety Yeah. When all of that performance won't work. And that's when a person becomes what we think of as classically addicted. Mhmm. When actually, unless what the original addiction is treated, yeah, we'll save lives by helping people get sober and survive, but we don't really help people return to living fully unless we address the addiction underneath the addiction. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. I do. And, that takes time. Mhmm. But but, the genetics will never change, and what's amazing is you and I are surrendered to the reality of our genetics. Right? Mhmm. But just because the genetics don't change, doesn't mean we have to live controlled by our genetics. And it's amazing the very thing we spend our lives avoiding ends up being the very antidote that allows us to have some choice making related to, you know, reality.

Yeah. And, so you wanna So while ago, you were edging oh so close into the territory that our guys that have been here and some ladies that have done some work here to know as the paradigm. Yeah. And so we're going next time, we're gonna get more into that. And you're also talking about, you know, we're we're really good. We people are really good at, seeing there's something going on. Addiction. It's okay. This is bad, and, okay. This is how it happens. But they're really and truly, despite what people may think, there really is a a treatment and addressing of this thing. There is a solution. And, you know, Phil, just a a quick sort of story, you know, the breaking of denial, how to reassociate, how to no longer be blind in denial. There were years and years ago, I've told you this story. It's really before you and I began to work together, which has been, you know, fourteen years now, and so this is, you know, twenty years ago. And, one of the wealthiest men I've really had contact with had just, sold another company, and he had received a $125,000,000 for his second sale. So he went from wealthy to wealthier, and he began to spend a little time with me, because he had become sort of, let's just say mildly depressed, and he wanted to know what he needed to do, because he had already done everything. He had a, you know, I said well, if I remember the first time he drove up in a, Carrera, Porsche? Porsche? It's called Porsche? Wow. Is it Porsche or Porsche? I think it's the cool people say Porsche. Well, the problem is that that if I can't say it, I really don't need to know. But, I mean, three different cars at three different times we visited. We only I only saw them three times. The Jaguar, a Mercedes, and a a Porsche, Porsche. I'm sure we'll get some comments. You will on text, like, to let Chip know that it's not that he'll not that it's gonna matter to him. But he came, and he he said, I'm miserable. I don't know what to do because I don't really have to do anything. And, so he he he had everything he'd ever worked for, and I said, well, I think the thing that might really help you, find your next step, your next direction, is to go home. He said, go home Go home to and he named this place in another state, and he began to describe it as very sordid and very, very, a place no one would want to grow up. Rigid, savage, dogmatized, and, cruel. And, I said, I mean, go home to inside yourself into the heart, because this place you left behind is still in you and needs to be addressed so you don't have to run anymore. Because he did acknowledge that a lot of his achievement was directly connected to what he was running from Mhmm. As much as what he was really running towards. And, so at the on the third time, I just recommended this is what you can do. Go back and find your story and the feelings that go with it. Where did you come from? What did it feel like? What do you remember? And re to remember is to have the opportunity to remember ourselves, to put ourselves back together. So once he starts naming his feelings, then denial starts to break. And once we start to remember, we begin to reassociate with what we're trying not to experience. So the breaking of denial and the return to association with ourselves, we go home. We go home and start to tell the story of where we came from and then begin to begin to name the feelings that go with it. So recovery is so much about reunification. It's about reconnection. It's about, rejoining our heads connected to our hearts, so that we can end up being recreated, and we can get recovery from, so we can have recovery of the lives we're made to have and be able to have that replenishment, that redemption, that restoration Mhmm. Daily on a daily level. There's the the quote cure unquote. Yeah. Because there's no cure for genetics, but there is a daily recovery of the lives we're made to have through emotional, dealing with life on an emotional level, and then using our brains to live out of our hearts. You know? And then learning all the wisdom that goes with living fully in relationship with ourselves, others, and God. So there's a way there's a way through this. Not a there's not a way around