The Discipline of Joy

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

You're listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dahn. Sage Hill is a social impact organization that helps people see who they're made to be so they can do what they're made to do. Hey, Chip. Hey, Stephen. Back here in the Sage Hill studio. Yes. Sage Hill podcast. That's right. And so in the last podcast, we talked about, four forms of joy. Right? We talked about, you know, living wholeheartedly on the mountaintop experience where we're kind of delivered from this moment, and and we're beyond our shame and beyond our anxiety. And it's this momentary thing. We talked about the inward expression of ourselves that comes out in the single single focus of creativity and how that that can occupy us and, fulfill us in a way that is beyond the tragedy of life. We talked about appreciation and gratitude as a real grounding element, valuing what we have received, what we have, gotten to do, what we've what we've, gotten to not do. Just just sense of, like, there's more happening for me than it's not happening, you you know, for me. It's more happening for me than it's happening to me. Right? Yeah. I'm not a victim in the world. I'm a participant, and I'm grateful for what I have. And, there's a sense of joy in that. And that those lead us to this sense of faith, this sense of certainty and and perseverance and an awareness of a bigger story than the momentary story on it. And even that faith allows us to have those. Yeah. Even sometimes There's this kind of this process orientation around joy. Okay. And so you you've said in your last podcast that that there's a way to live out these in discipline. There's a in discipline being a a practice, not an imposition on ourselves, but a way we practice, and that the practice of doing it teaches us something Yeah. Right, and and shapes us in a way that just learning about something can't shape us. Yeah. K. So we're gonna step in now and talk about the the discipline of joy is a discipline. What are the rituals, practices, ways of ordering our life that bring us more joy. Mhmm. So what what are those? I I think today, the the simplest,

form of and you said practice. Mhmm. There's a practice of, which means, what what does practice mean? Something we do consistently for an outcome. Right? And, With an admission of I'll never arrive. Yes. And, yeah, it's a recognition that this is what I do to get to this other thing Yeah. To to make me better at something, to allow me to, have an outcome I'm looking for. It's it's a repetitive participation in something to get me better at something else. Right? So practicing joy or or rather practicing the practices to get us to joy, it's a it's a morning, ritual. Now a ritual is not, obsessive compulsive. That's that's in the territory of sickness. But I mean C. S. Lewis's description of ritual, it's an action we take that represents something deeper and symbolic, even metaphorical and even unattainable. You know, it's an action we take that represents something bigger and even mysterious. Participation in something bigger than ourselves. It's it's not a obsessive compulsive habit that warts off me striking out. Exactly.

Right? I gotta put my shoe on the right way. I've gotta if I don't put my seat belt on at the right time and I leave the house, I'm gonna get in a wreck. If the stove's not turned off, then Yeah. That's what it says. It doesn't prevent something we don't want to happen. If I don't say goodnight to my children every night, then all of a sudden Somebody will have a wreck. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's not a fear thing. It's an opportunity thing. And one one of the things you taught me many years ago is that the word discipline and the word disciple, like, are really close to the same word. Right? And and the discipline when I when I take on a discipline or or submit to a discipline, I'm letting that thing teach me. Like, a disciple is letting the teacher teach them or to teach I become teacher. And so many of us think about discipline as self will. Right? Yeah. We're trying to control the outcome as opposed to letting the process take care of the outcome. Buffeting the body, standing in a certain way, addressing a certain way. So when, when we talk about joy and the disciplines of joy, we're not talking about is willing happiness. We're talking about availability. We're talking about availability to positive outcomes that are happening for me anyway. Yes. Life isn't there's not a scarcity to life. There's an abundance to life. Yes. So so the the discipline that I'm describing is upon awakening

Yeah. That, that that I don't grab my I grab my phone. Right? And I look at the news, and I check email. That's the first thing you do. You wake up. Right? Do is go through, is it Facebook? Go through Facebook. Instagram. Instagram. Yeah. Twitter. That is a good way to start the day with Snapchat. The local news and and starting to rev yourself up with the local news. Yeah. Yeah. Fox News. Yeah. Wall Street. Yeah. Yeah. Is, Invest NBC. Yeah. To get up to get up every day and attend to hygiene, of course, and then get a drink of water, get a cup of coffee, whatever it is that you do, and then go to your sitting place. K? So because because we are creatures who are emotional and spiritual in that terms of how we're created, and we're created to live fully in relationship with ourselves, others, and God. So the first thing that a person really needs to do to be able to face the day over which they have no control is to attend to the heart's experience of daily living. Okay? So what that means is that the person needs to put the heart above everything. Alright? Yep. And if we don't start with dealing with the heart or bringing the heart to connection, with God, journaling, the scripture reading, prayer, attention, plans related to envisioning the day, it's it's your God time. It's the time where you abide in God and God abides in you, that you awaken and meet the one who has control of life because I don't. Mhmm. K? So that automatically is a relational appreciation. Even if you're telling It's an admission too. Yes. It it is an admission of I need to be still before I start doing stuff. Yes. And so what happens in that process is that you're not refusing the heart, you're admitting the heart. And you're sitting down with the heart, and and you're not joyful if you're riding loneliness, sadness, and hurt, but loneliness, sadness, and hurt may be the truth of of of your anticipation for that day. So but that's that's good. So if you're not if you're not doing those things, then you're you're

saying, I'm gonna control life. I'm running I'm running into life afraid, not present. Which means the joy is not gonna be near me. It can't be because what happens is the body's taken over, and we'll get to that. So the heart needs to be attended to first k. Which means the heart attended to or connected, even if it's not happy, it is still gratified. In other words, attached, a part of, belongs, matters. And if the heart is gratified, the brain or the mind itself, is engaged in terms of the activity, of the focus, the passion, and the planning for the day. So if the heart is gratified or or connected, the brain is it, the mind is engaged, the soul is content in terms of how I'm made to live is is is going the direction it's made to live, okay? Right. And then the body is directed. In other words, my heart taking precedence over everything else actually directs the body. My body goes where my heart takes it. If we do not wake up and get connected to how we're made and who we're made to be, what happens is that anxiety, physiology takes over and we start to hurry into getting to a place where we can get control and then that control will give us happiness as if we think we can manufacture joy. But what happens is with if if we're caught up in the body taking over lust for power, control, lust for avoidance, lust to get away from my heart occurs, and instead of the mind being engaged, the brain becomes a hunter to satisfy the body's lust, which is to make anxiety go away. Yeah. Okay? And then the soul wanders Which is an impaired attempt to feed the heart. And exactly. And the heart will be satiated, but not gratified. The heart will be loaded up with donuts and coffee or, different things that Nicotine. Throw throw things into fantasy, the lust, what we normally think of lust, and so we gotta get that money. I've gotta get that sex. I've gotta get that bill. I've gotta get that thing. And all of a sudden, we're running through life and missing the day. We're missing possibilities of ecstasy, genuine ecstasy, missing creativity, full participation of harp, we're missing appreciation, seeing what I've I've gotten to do and get to do, and then fashioning the possibility of hoping for a future and we're not living in faith. So the the the discipline of joy is awakening every day and starting my life out heart connected. Right. And we will have, if not joy, a willingness to experience whatever we have to do, Bob, because we're walking in faith. We're no longer living by sight, but we're living by faith. I love about that is,

waking up to my day from the inside out. Uh-huh. Right? Like, it's like, okay. Where's my heart? Where am I? Where am I? Wake up, buddy. Come on. Let's where where are you? Yeah. Right? Because the heart is active even while we sleep. When we've done the we we did a, a podcast and I did a blog on a yikah, which is God's first questions, where are you? And by practicing the discipline of joy, we come to the place where we answer God with here I am. Yeah. And but it's not here I am available, but here I am to be abide with you and to be in relationship with you. Now the thing is though, no matter what we do, we have to face that some part of our intentions of practicing any ritual or any discipline is wanting to get to a place where this doesn't exist. What's this? Well, this in terms of in in spite the imagination and then and and the inevitability related to it is that no matter what we do, we're bound to the Earth. Yeah. And so the joy that we're really created for is not going to happen here. So the joy we have is in spite of where we are. Yeah. Alright? And so ultimately though, Paul talks about in in second Corinthians five that that we we groan in our or in our mortality, but there will come a time when the mortal will be swallowed up by life. And the more we're able to practice the discipline of joy, not just positive thinking, but the the heart being attached to ourselves, others, and God and the ecstasy, appreciation, creativity, and faith in that, then we really can live with this recognition that joy allows us to participate a little bit on the other side of the veil. Absolutely. It does. So The veil. There's a veil that in the world but not of it at that point. Yeah. And there is more to life than we'll ever see. That's why it's we we walk by faith not by sight is such a gigantic deal because if we look around and we go on what we see, then we will have the experience of reality, which is real Right. And we'll miss the reality of the truth,

which is where joy lives. So I would think it would be, those morning disciplines, I would think would be bookended by some evening disciplines then too. Maybe not right before you go to bed disciplines, but some something at the end of the day that stops the body, that quiets the soul, that rests the mind, that that Now what I you know what? To me, the morning prepares me for the day and, speak home because at at evening, I I I just read until I'm sleepy. Yeah. And then I pray Zephaniah three seventeen, man. I'm gone, you know. So I wonder I know for me that one of one of the best rituals or disciplines where I find appreciation, gratitude is after dinner walks. Okay. Like Yeah. You know? It's like taking the dog for a walk. Yeah. The neighborhood's kinda quiet. Yeah. You know I do post work workouts. Yeah. Post work workouts. Yeah. I do. Yeah. But there's something about about that, and there's something about a meal with people in the evening. There's something about an after dinner walk. There's something about we sat on the back porch last night, and Heather had a cup of tea, and not much was said. Mhmm. And we talked about a couple of things, but the kids kind of came and went off the back porch, you know, and, the birds were flittering in the evening. You could see them, you know? And, and there's something that's, really sacred about that that, I mean, help helps me rest. Right? Helps me find joy. Appreciation. Yeah. There's that gratitude.

You know, and I love the sounds of, us sitting out in in, the sounds of the evening like you just described. I was down at our arbor the other day, the evening and visiting with a friend. He had left and I I sat down there for probably another thirty, forty five minutes, listening to the frogs down in the creek. You know, just Yeah. The sounds of the evening. It it was, it it, it it expanded my mind and also, I I appreciate it. Yeah. Now that oh, Stephen, I forgot to say about, what gratitude and appreciation does. It just hit me. It it I started to say as I heard the frogs and the creek, I started to remember. I started to other evenings and other times, and I forgot to tell you that joy, what it does, appreciation and gratitude, it re we remember, and when we remember, we are remembered. Yeah. We're putting ourselves back together. Our past, present, and hopeful future. Yes. So joy Or compartmentalized. Yeah. Faith, appreciation, gratitude, and creativity,

especially appreciation, what we've gotten to do and what we get to do, remembers us. It puts us back together. So that's what those morning times and evening times really are. Yeah. Like, the moments of remembering. Yeah. Because the day takes us apart. Put it really does. Yeah. Really does. I put myself together. I bring myself into alignment or into agreement with myself in the morning. Yeah. And I put myself back together after the day has taken me apart. Yeah. So the the practice of of joy really comes honestly after we become adept at the other seven feelings. Yeah. Our willingness to experience life on life's terms will allow us to have sadness and tears over playing, Bach on What? What the guy was describing. As we kinda come to an end that

is really encouraging and fascinating to me about this is there's so much of an embodiment of this. This is not just a mental or emotional thing. There's a there is we're talking about physical ways of moving through life that tend to our heart. Yes. Yeah. Action. That we have to take action. We have to be, available to our bodies Yep. And attend to those things. We are dreaming, thinking, doing creatures. We're created to dream, to think, and do. So they mean I'd tell you right now. My morning my my morning discipline absolutely sucks. Like, I'm sitting here going, gosh, Stephen. Like, no wonder some days by 09:00 you're a raging mess. You know? And it's, so I'm gonna hear on the St. Joe podcast, I'm not gonna challenge myself, but I'm gonna recommit myself to the, to, to these disciplines. At least a couple days a week for sure. But really, that to sit with my heart, engage my mind, get my soul content so I can go into my day and be with myself as opposed to be running ahead of my anxiety to try to, you know, as you said, I like to catch a tiger by the tail, like like to so much that I'm realizing is me trying to run ahead of my anxiety to make my life okay. Yeah. Instead of bringing my heart into what God's called me to that day. And you said anxiety literally

drives us away from ourselves. Yeah. And the only way to stop it is through lust. Yeah. And lust meaning getting power over my heart to make it stop. Yeah. So, yeah. It's it's tough. It's tough. Yeah. Well, thanks Chip. It's hey, thanks, Dean. It's good to see you. Alright. Talk to you later. Yep. Bye.