On Addiction: They Myth of Intellect, Morality, and Will Power

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

You're listening to the Sage Hill podcast on addiction with Dr. Chip Dodd and Phil Herndon. This is a new weekly podcast recorded at the Center for Professional Excellence. Hello again, everybody. Welcome to the Sage Hill podcast. This is Phil Herndon along with Dr. Chip Dodd recording in the, Center for Professional Excellence at JourneyPure podcast room known as, Chip's office. Oh, hey, Chip. Yep. Hey, Phil. How you doing? I'm I'm I'm, I'm just like I was a few seconds ago when you asked me Oh, I did? Off the yeah. Oh. So, anyway, still doing really well, Chip. Alright. Here at, middle of the afternoon, guys are in lecture. So we got a little chance to come over here and talk a little bit more about addiction. Yeah. So we've been, doing this series, I don't know, several episodes luncheon where you did a talk, for the group there on something real familiar to, certainly CPE guys and their families. This whole idea that, professional people have a lot of intellect. They're really moral people and have a ton of will power. They're really tough. But there were some outgrowths that you shared with this physician's program that were here that I think really, I guess, for lack of a better term, made some light bulbs come on for them. I was kinda looking at the room as you were talking. When you when you talked about those three things, they were nodding like, oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Then you you talked about some outgrowths of that. So I thought it'd be a great subject today to talk about in terms of addiction and recovery and what happens if a person has only those three things. Only and let Yes. Rally will pop. You know

you just You know those three things? Wow. Well, that's yeah. Like, you gave that that that chip. You do know what we're talking about. You have that look on your face. Yeah. It's on the TV there, buddy. Go ahead and hit it. Yeah. Hey. But, I I was thinking, just to back up a little bit, for those of you guys who have, been with what Phil and I do and others here at CPE do, is that, a a professional is, of course, somebody we normally associate with having a license or we associate with having a career. But, really, underneath it all, Phil and I consider a professional to be someone who really brings and works with their hands, their head, and their heart. They're people who are all in, who have capacity, which means room for growth, and ability, which means ability, which means, ability means ability, which means able to get stuff done related to capacity, and they become capable. They're capable people who work with their hands, heads, and heart. Another way of saying is competent and caring. And I I was saying earlier that I've I've been mocked even before about calling a professional an artist. Mhmm. That anyone who is an artist, I will consider a professional. Anyone who brings it all with competence and care, is a professional. So but one of the things we've noted over the years, and can it's consistent. It's as consistent as almost the mundane of the sun rising and sunset. I mean, it's the norm, is that that all professionals who we've treated over the years and really professionals that we know and have seen in the readings we do, the studies we've done, the research we've read, professionals carry around three characteristics of intellect, willpower, and morality. Mhmm. And yet when addiction strikes, these people are living proof that addiction exactly exists, that that there is a disease of addiction. There is a possession, a compulsion, something that cannot be stopped because we've treated some of the smartest, toughest, and best people in the world. No doubt. And yet, here they are, being controlled by something they can't control. Mhmm. So these very smart, tough, and, moral people, meaning concern. Moral means concerned all the way down to knowing how to hide something. And some people people around us people who've been around us, we they know that we we even basic morality is knowing how to hide something. So and yet these people come in, and they're they're they've achieved so much that they look stupid, and they're not. They look weak, and they're not. They're proven. And they look bad, and they're not because they know the difference. Mhmm. And so we know that it's living proof of addiction, but it also proves that those three things don't don't fix, repair, or cure, or put a person in relief from addiction. So we've clearly said over the years that you don't have a an intelligence problem or a willpower problem. You don't even have a moral problem. You have a heart problem. Yeah. And what we've noticed is over the years that people who become especially helping professions, the social servant professions, the, the jurisprude people of jurisprudence, people in health, medicine Mhmm. People in theology and academia. What we've noticed is that these people have used those capacities, intelligence, willpower, and morality to become people, who are able, through their abilities, they become caretakers. This is the this is the goodness of a professional, and this is the curse of the professional Yeah. Is that almost all professionals wind up attempting to find their fulfillment or their emotional emotional connectivity by applying their intelligence, willpower, morality, and their profession Mhmm. To caretaking other people. Taking care of other people, which is, in a lot of ways, the assignment of the profession. Yep. But in doing so, they lose the capacity to care for themselves, to to take care of themselves, because their worth often becomes their work. So they become caretakers. They're achievement oriented. If if they they the more I can get done, the more capable I am of caretaking and the more well thought of I will be, the more trophies I will receive, the more degree stamps I will get. And that's basically the highest form of production of intellect, willpower, and morality is achievement. So they're achievement oriented. They're caretaking. They're people pleasers, which means that if you're happy, I'm okay. And then they are are approval seekers. Your facial expression and the applause that comes with that is the what stamps me as valid. So these people Invalid. Are invalid or well said invalid. And we've got a whole series of information we do with professionals in terms of the obsessive compulsive tendencies that make them really good at something also can make them quickly pretty sick. Mhmm. You know? So these four characteristics become a a a way of finding fulfillment or connection. And when once a person loses heart through performance, then they have to have connection some other way. These four things, caretaking, approval seeking, achievement orientation, and people pleasing become the four forms of finding connection. But it did they depend upon external flow of performance. I perform, and then I stick my hand out for the reward. Which like you said,

people like this are really good at. Fabulous. Really good at that. They they they get it. And the problem is that it becomes a, that which fills me but doesn't nourish me. Mhmm. Do you know? So it's like satiation. I'm satiated, but it'll dry out. I'm not gratified. Satisfaction versus gratification. You know, I'm filled but not nourished. This isn't the food that actually emotionally and spiritually nourishes what we know as the limbic system or the heart. So those four forms, become an addictive process, which is a great tragedy Mhmm. That these people are really good at something. They start to use the very things they're good at doing to find, sense of worth. Mhmm. Because along the way through performing, they lost their sense of being worth. They're having their worth because they simply, lived. Yeah. You know? They they breathe and lived and needed, and others needed them. You know? Love being loved for the sake of loving. Loving them. Mhmm. And so, believe it or not, that process of working for worth or performing to be valuable becomes an addictive process, which sets the professional up for two things, two directions, burnout, which is which is the process of, believe it or not, living in a stress filled circumstance. And and stress is, the body's attempt to handle the cognitive processes of performing without having to feel. Is that too complex? But Yeah. I think it's too bit. Okay. Yeah. That that, when a person's under stress, they're, under the pressure to perform to get relief from the anxiety of stress. It's pressure. Like you said before, it's an engineering term. Yeah. It's it's a pressure upon an object. Uh-huh. And so the body, cortisol, catecholamines, adrenaline go up under pressure, and then the thinking says, I've got to get this done for my body to relax. Uh-huh. So stress is the body attempting to handle the thoughts and the thoughts trying to make the body relax. And it's also stress as a way of avoiding feelings. Mhmm. That if I can get this thing over with, then I won't have to feel fear, sadness, hurt, loneliness, which these people, usually stress filled people have lost contact with their feelings along the way anyway. Yes. So anyway, those four characteristics end up increasing stress, and those all four of those characteristics are dependents upon people. Dependents upon what people think. So am I Dependents for what? Dependents on my sense of well-being Alright. My sense of of of sense of accomplishment, my sense of worth. And so burnout is is really a stress disorder Mhmm. Of ultimately wanting to remove myself from what once was something promising or even pleasing, or it leads to addiction proper. So burnout is looking for some other profession that will be better than what I've got. Mhmm. And addiction is the relief from performance. And looking for another profession for burnout is performance Uh-huh. Is relief from performance. So so burnout and, drugs, alcohol, sex are inanimate relationships with other things besides relationship with people to make me okay. Mhmm. And so the process is, so tragic is that once a professional loses heart, which is the ability to emotionally and spiritually be in need of dealing with one's own heart, in need of other people and god. Once a person loses contact with heart and the ability to use it, this process we just named, intellect, willpower, morality, transfers over to being used to caretake, approval seek, achievement orientation, and people, please. Relief comes from having some kind of relationship or connection with an inanimate experience. Mhmm. Or burnout is the the the the plan is to find another place to go Yeah. Where this doesn't exist, even starting a new career. Yeah. And and and it it it it normally doesn't work. Addiction works for a while. A new career will work for a while. But a lot of times, what needs to happen is this person needs to be emotionally and spiritually awakened, emotionally and spiritually connected, emotionally and spiritually nourished, and then by the heart taking lead, the the the the the heart is the leader because the heart is the the the the connector. It connects us to what matters. It connects us to who matters. It connects us to how we're made, and it connects us to what we're made to do. So if the heart takes the lead, the intellect, the willpower, and the morality follow instead of the intellect and the willpower and the morality being in the lead, and they squish the heart. The heart takes the lead, and these tools, intellect, willpower, and morality, find their proper place. Instead of being in leadership, which squashes or, you know, denies the heart, the heart leads, has full expression, connectivity, full connectivity, and then and these other things become tools. Instead of caretaking, you become caring with boundaries. Instead of achievement orientation, you go do things for the sake of doing them without looking around to see who approves or who, as as gives you an award. Instead of approval seeking, you have internal locus of control. You do something because it's worth doing Mhmm. Regardless of seeing who else is watching. And then people pleasing starts with this pleases me. Mhmm. And then if you like it, that's great. And if you don't, well, I'm not doing it for you. Yeah. Though I am doing it as responsibility towards you, but I'm not trying to do it for you. So I know people that know me, and you'll be shocked to hear that we don't rehearse this. So I'm gonna ask you a couple questions that you don't know are coming. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And and and just like that thousand, what's that called? Thousand yard stare? Yeah. That's when you started because I was thinking about something. Yeah. So the question comes to mind that I would have if I had not been,

you know, neck deep in this for a lot of years, recovery and working with others. Question would be like, okay. So so I hear what you're saying, but what what is it that's so onerous or burdensome about taking care of people and making sure people are pleased and getting people's approval? Like, I write prescriptions, or, defend people in a case, or I minister to people in my church. Like, what I mean, why is that wrong, so to speak? And that's what I'm saying. This isn't either or. Uh-huh. It's more of a what for. And psychologists call internal locus of control means that one's making their own choices. The people on the ground, the rest of us, call internal locus control is that I'm responsible for myself and towards others because it feels good and it's a good thing to do. That's what internal locus of control. I do good because it feels good and because it's good to do. I mean, real simple. I'm responsible for myself, and I'm responsible towards others giving myself away because it feels good and it's a good thing to do. It's internal locus of control. I'm not doing it because I have to. I'm doing it because I get to. And so, giving oneself is where caretaking goes back to caring. I'm not trying to get something from it it doesn't give. Mhmm. K? Caring for people doesn't mean that people are gonna care back. And then approval seeking, applause lasts as long as the show is going on. Yeah. You you can't get and so I love attention, approval. I love you did a great job. Those are wonderful things, but it can't be you've done a wonderful job, and therefore, you're wonderful. Mhmm. I have to have people who love me, who believe I'm wonderful because it's me. I'm a performance. So the what for is like and then, achievement. You and I have talked before. Your your achievements won't love you back. Yeah. No matter you you can have all a wall full of trophies, and the you can stand in front of them all day long. They're not gonna say a darn thing Mhmm. In terms of, like, you matter, you're worth it. No matter how sick you get, no matter how poor no matter how poor you are, no matter what troubles you have, I ain't leaving, and you're worth the trouble. Achievements never say it back. Right. So you have to have somebody to love you to achieve in a genuine way. Because the point isn't the achievements. The point is the creating. Mhmm. You know? And then finally, people pleasing. Man, I I love pleasing people. I love that, you know, somebody you know, I say something nice to somebody, and they say something back, and they go off. And they feel good, and I feel good because they feel good. But see, that's that's back to the I'm responsible for me, responsible towards you. Guess what? Because it feels good. Mhmm. And, it's good to do good things. That's called internal locus of control. So if if I'm doing this because it's me doing it, that's a good thing. But when I'm caring for people so that they will fill me up. They will think I'm great. They will see me as special. If I'm trying to get my worth from them versus expressing my worth towards them Uh-huh. Two different things. So it's not an either or, but a what for Yeah. Which means me laying claim to my intentions. I gotta know what am I doing this for. Yeah. You know? So we start rounding out a little bit.

You bring that down. I'm just kinda thinking back on the board. You know, I had those four characteristics down there, people pleasing, etcetera. And down the bottom of that was big old word addiction with a circle around it. So just kinda complete the thought for for today, this podcast. So right. Internal locus of control. What am I doing it for? What's internally, pushing me toward this? How does a person move from those three intellect, morality, willpower into these four outgrowths? How's that turn in? You while ago, you said addiction to an inanimate object. Yeah. Yeah. That that if you're if you and I are attempting to have relational fulfillment through performing for others, one is we won't trust their giving, and we will resent having to perform to get something. Mhmm. Right? Uh-huh. So because we're made for connection, if we can't have connection or fulfillment through genuine relationship like we're made, we have to find another way because we're made for connection. So relationship, quote, unquote, with an inanimate object doesn't talk back, so to speak, and that includes sex addiction Mhmm. Even with people. But people are objects who don't talk back, which means they don't matter. So connection through something I could control, which gets out of control, of course, becomes a substitute or counterfeit fulfillment or the experience of being connection like we did the last podcast we did. Addiction bathes the neurons but destroys the child. That it really neurochemically satiates me for a while, but then at the same time, it takes me farther and farther away from genuine connection heart with others, and and my heart with god. So, you know, relationship, quote, unquote, through an inanimate object becomes a substitute, becomes an impaired attempt to have what life is made to give me, which is a full life Mhmm. Without having to pay the price of feeling fully. So we return to heart by feeling again. I mean, it it's so simple but hard to do, but it's so embarrassing almost, you know, for me and you. It's like, oh, so I've got to feel? I've got to feel those things, and those things will Mhmm. Like, put me back in my life, and they will help me connect to myself? But but they'll hurt. Yeah. They'll hurt. But what if people won't love me if they found out I'm weak? Well, see, you're not weak. You you have been a feeling person as you facing that you're human. Mhmm. And then you join the human race, which means that you face that the best we ever get is clumsy. You face that, life is about practice. Even doctors are practicing. Mhmm. We come to the conclusion that we have to live life on life's terms, and that's the point. You gotta get good at that, which means dealing with mistakes and failure and successes, of course. And then finally, it takes a lifetime to learn how to live. So most professionals are in pursuit of perfection. And then what happens is professionals have to come back to the place that we have to live is in reality. But the truth of life is we're made to feel it, and we're made to participate in it, and we're made to connect emotionally and spiritually with it. And that's all I had to say about that. Thanks, Forrest.

No. That that's really good, because that that today, you know, these were the people we were you were talking to, that we were visiting with. They are, really smart medical people. Some of them medical doctors, some clinicians, in the room. And, like I said, they they probably were familiar, at least intuitively aware of, yeah. Yeah. I know I'm smart. I know I'm tough. I know I'm basically good, morally good. I just wanted I thought it was very important to to get out there, like, yeah. Yeah. Okay. I understand that, but but so what? I because so what is it turns into these things, and, ultimately, ultimately, it ends up with this, quote, unquote, relationship with an inanimate object, thereby reversing all we've been talking about. Yes. External locus of control, head only, no heart, etcetera. Boy, that's well said. It's like yeah. External locus of control

robs us of the internal sense of pleasure, internal sense of gratification, and then it's just yeah. It just becomes a mess. Yeah. Head over heart, performance over presence. It creates isolation and secrecy, aloneness. I mean, we're made for connection through relationship. You know, it's it it it loves the answer. I mean You know? By the way, before we get off, for those of you who are interested, because people have asked for a long time, two things. One is, there's been a request for The Voice of the Heart to be become an audio book, where there is an audio book on The Voice of the Heart that's come out. It's on Amazon. And then also, a parenting book. People have asked about that for years. There's a book called Parenting with Heart coming out in October, and you can pre order that on Amazon also. So anyway, I just want to let you guys know that that's available for interested people or some of the old timers, who have asked about that. It took me a long time, but we've gotten that done, so I'm very pleased about that.

Hey, thanks for listening again, and, we will be back very soon. Continue this series on addiction, and thanks for listening. Doctor. Hey, thanks, Phil.