Step 2 - Came to Believe

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

You're listening to the Sage Hill podcast on addiction with Dr. Chip Dodd and Phil Herndon. This is a new weekly podcast recorded at the Center for Professional Excellence. Welcome to Sage Hill podcast. This is Phil Herndon, clinical director of Center for Professional Excellence on the, campus of JourneyPure at the River in Murfreesboro, along with my, long time friend, partner Chip Dodd, founder and executive director of CPE. Hello, Chip. Oh, God. That's ridiculous. So as I was doing my famous lead in, Chip just had the worst, awfulest, most awful What? Face. It was horrible. I was just I was just staring. No. You weren't. It was horrible. So, I was planning. What? No. I was trying to make you laugh. Yeah. And you did almost. Third grade. So welcome again. Third grade humor from Chip, if you only knew. Yeah. So we did first step talk last time. Yeah. Talked about, powerlessness, helplessness Loved it. That kind of thing. So what I've often told guys actually, what was I've told guys at CP for years, very little of what I say is original. You know, most of it's been given to me by other people. One of the things I was told really early on in my own recovery was that these steps do not stand in isolation, That there's a step before it. Even you mentioned earlier, you know, even the step before the first step is a is a story. Yeah. Like, here's my timeline. Even the step before the first step is where I was. That's right. So so they have something that leads into them and out of them. And so last time, again, the talk around powerlessness and admission and all kinda opens the gate to a second step. Mhmm. And I was like, we, came to believe a power higher than ourselves could, restore us to sanity, which means, you know, we've been insane, and I need a restorer for that. So Yeah. Take it from there. Second step coming out of the first. You know, it's, yeah. I came to believe that a power greater than myself could restore me to sanity.

In some ways, it feels it it makes sense to even take a take a couple of minutes. I mean, just talk about some of the words, what it relate to, but, sanity, you know, as over the years has been translated insanity, rather, has been translated into crazy. Mhmm. Something's wrong with your your brain, or just something defective about about you, but sanity, just means wholeness. And, sanity for us means, becoming integrated again. Our head connects to our hearts, and we have a nice coming and going between the two. Do you know? Yeah. In fact, doctor Thomas Lewis and, his cohorts and, wrote a book called A General Theory of Love, and he talked about how the the frontal lobe, the head, the thinking sort of the brain, is a purpose. One of its main purposes is to articulate the stutterings and stammerings of the dark region. And and what that means is to communicate the feelings, needs, desires, longings, and hope, and the imagination that comes out of that territory. Because, every single addict that, you know, it has has a a very significant problem, Bill Wilson said, it's the inability to form a true partnership with another human being, of which alcoholism ultimately ultimately ultimately ultimately, I wanna say it a bunch of times, becomes a symptom. Yeah. You know? That's right. But it is not a symptom in the beginning, and it's not a symptom in the first second step a person does. It is the thing itself. Uh-huh. But still, you you know and Bill Wilson, even talked about relationship with self, others, and God. It is a reference to that that I saw years later after developing the spiritual root system. So so so sanity means coming to wholeness, that there's this connection and highway, this double double lane highway coming and going between the head and the heart. Mhmm. That I use my head to develop wisdom of the heart, and I use, my head to communicate the fullness of the heart, that the heart takes precedence over everything, and then I believe the brain, the the the the stomach, the hands, the skin, the everything in life, the intellect, the willpower is made to be in service to that central place within us, the core of of where we come from and who we are. So the second step is as we know in the beginning, especially points to, I don't necessarily have to believe in, connection to god, but I do need to know that I'm not god. Mhmm. And then secondly, not only is it, not necessarily having to be a connection to god, but I realized that I'm not enough by myself, and that that first step has already shown me that very, very clearly. For sure. So and then, really, we talk about how the first steps and admission, well, the second step is really surrendering to, help. Mhmm. And so surrender is a is actually a beautiful word that that just like sanity and insanity became mis used and misnamed and misundefined and poorly defined, the word surrender has, is also poorly defined in our society, which is all about or rather the sick part of our society is about control and addiction. Yeah. Oh, and we I'll hey. Mark this. Let's do a podcast, and you can leave this in this one, but let's do a podcast on, the world as an addict, this nation as an addict in terms of numbers. I I think it's worth the time to go through the numbers as just an astounding reality Yeah. That's that points to how, being normal, really means a break from being common. Mhmm. Because what's what's common in this country is addiction. So surrender in our country and other places has been associated with defeat when actually it's a beautiful word because it means render over or give back. And we talked about even in the, other podcast and other times that, render over assumes, like, give it back. We surrender it. What's what's in that process is that we ran away a long time ago with our hearts and tried to find some place in this life away from having to be in relationship Mhmm. Or having to be in admission to being human or having to be in need. So in the second step, it really is a surrender to, I have to do something different to get the life I'm really looking for. And the beauty of surrender means give back or render over. It means you give back what you took. So we took who we're made to be away from how we're made to to do that. Yeah. And so, like, I would say we took it out of god's processes, and we ran off with it. Mhmm. And then we finally come to this place where we can't go any farther. We're admitting powerlessness. We sort of fallen at as far as, you know, at the last few steps we can go, we've fallen at this door. And at the same time, the door creaks open because we slammed against it as we drop to our faces, so to speak. Yeah. And the the person living in there goes, oh, well, there you are. And so, you know, give me back what you took from me, and let me give you what I intended to do with it. Mhmm. So there's a a power greater than ourselves can restore me to sanity that there's something other. And that we took from that and ran away from what was normal and that this process is handing normal back to us. Surrender means to give back over that which I took away from what it was made to be like and what it was made to do so it can happen again. So we're we're surrendered to the process Mhmm. And god owns the process. We're surrendering to how life is made to be lived on life's terms. We're surrendering to how we're made to live in relationship as emotional spiritual creatures. We're surrendering to, really kinda each other in terms of, of sort of, like, not controlling each other, but inviting each other into healthy boundaries and what we talk about later is appropriate authority in each other's lives. Like, you know, I need you and you need me. And so many times, how many people have said to us, boy, without without Phil, there's no Chip, and without Chip, there's no Phil. And and there's a guy that used to refer, in the you know, to us. He'd say he'd say, well, y'all's DNA is interchangeable anyway, in terms of, like, he called you, Chip, and me, Phil, and so on. And, I would say that's a lot about surrender too. Mhmm. Because I I knew that, with you, doing this with me and, you know, others too, that we could be more together than we would ever be apart. That's another expression of wholeness. For sure. So not only whole with myself Mhmm. But wholly involved with other people and whole because God is doing for me what I never can do for myself. Mhmm. In a lot of ways, the second step begins just that I know that I'm not God and that the group process itself, the group consciousness of an AA meeting, that there's a new strength, a new hope, and a new new, a new, way to experience life again in in the process of group. You know? That's right. You know, I was thinking

as you were saying, that the falling against the door and those kinds of pictures of what surrender really is, you know, this this idea about sanity meaning wholeness or integrated, you know, part head integrated. The the highway's open on both sides, so to speak. And I I remember thinking, you know, I I I didn't know what these words meant. I didn't know these words existed, actually. I was a doc supervisor in Amarillo, Texas in early recovery. Came with never surrender. For sure. Yeah. But, you know, I remember just coming to grips with or seeing for the first time maybe, this what we now what I now know is a thing called compartmentalization. Yeah. The insanity of living in these little compartments. Like, I'm fragmented everywhere, but I don't know who I am. I don't know what to do. I've been so in this loop of getting away from myself for so long, you know, until the first step opened the gate to that surrender. And so, you know, you said the the integration, meaning integrated person. And Mhmm. I remember years ago, again, not knowing what to call it, picking up those pieces where I've been insane and putting having them put back together by this by God, you know, the higher power ultimately, to to let me know how to do that. And what he was doing was opening up that highway. I'm reminded, you know, as we as we record this, you know, the the flood is still going on in Southeast Texas and Louisiana and stuff. And I think you see those pictures of, hundreds and thousands, maybe, of cars going one direction, and the lane on the other end got not a car on it. Mhmm. Think about that such a picture of addiction as you as you talked about the highway, how the second step helps open up both lanes Mhmm. Hard and ahead. Yeah.

Yeah. The free passage coming and going Mhmm. Of how we're made to live. Sometimes we're in need, sometimes the other was in need. Sometimes we have what somebody needs, and sometimes we need what somebody has. I mean That's right. It's just the sharing of life. Yes. And, you know, share, a person when a person becomes sane again, we we have a a a proper humility Mhmm. And then also proper gratitude for the gifts we have. That's true. And then we become able able to really understand the word ultimately later on, really, but share. I mean, we think of share in the insane world, it means to give. Yeah. But in the sane world, share means to receive so that I'm able to give. Yeah. So the the second step is the beginning of of of receiving that which ultimately we're gonna give. When we get out of that 12 step, it's the beginning of receiving, to seeing who we're made to be so we can wind up doing what we're made to do Yeah. With proper humility, kinda living our greatness, which is a strange way to put it. Most of us spend our lives trying to be great and miss what we could have had instead of winding up in humility, and through that humility, really leaving behind things that are great. That's right. So That but brings to mind, you know,

we do a tremendous amount of and guys who have been with us know this is true, and you've done it, and I've done it. And we got to share it with these many men through the years, this this idea of, you know, family of origin work. And just to receive for a lot of us meant, uh-oh. What's this gonna cost me? Mhmm. I dare not even think about receiving because that means repayment, obligation, shoulds, I mean, all this stuff. And second step opens up that whole world of, no. Wait a minute. Sharing's not just giving so you don't have to be obligated. Yeah. Yeah. That and and and with that is the beginning to trust. You know, we've we've talked before, like, before we could trust again, and I think the second step has a lot to do with beginning of, at least I can't trust how I've operated Mhmm. And I've got to trust some other way to operate. That's the beginning. But so many ways, there's this little man or little person, little woman or whatever, sitting in our heads about sort of, like, 12 feet back behind our eyes in a chair, that's just like you said, always judging and assessing everything everybody says and what they really mean by what they say. Oh, yeah. And it it it functions off of distrust through judgment. Mhmm. So when somebody says, hey. I'd like to invite you to so and so. I'd like to give you something. I said, yeah. Like you just said a minute ago, what's it gonna cost? Mhmm. So this this little man, this little gnarled up old little man is always saying, don't trust that. Don't trust this. I know what you're all about. Never giving us an opportunity to come to trust again because we're always judging. Now we're judging as a form of protection. Mhmm. But the problem is that judgment becomes blanket and leaves us in isolation. So this second step gives us an opportunity to just say to put the man down, so to speak, and come out from behind and and say, can I really trust this? It begins to let us ask questions because we don't have to have all the answers too. You You know, so and in those questions, in that vulnerability, we become able to be, touched, seen. Mhmm. And, ultimately, recovery is an experience, not a concept. That's right. And, you know, unless we're touched,

unless we're seen, unless we're known, it doesn't become real to us. No. It doesn't. You know? Reminds me you were saying that reminds me of, you know, you guys CP guys remember the, you know, the infamous, clip from Braveheart where Robert the Bruce has a conversation with his dad. Yeah. Like, I I I've got I I gotta believe. I can't do this anymore. I can't live in the insanity of not trusting, not surrendering. William Wallace, don't know what to call it, but he believes. Yeah. You know, William, my youngest son said to me he's 25 now. And, I mean, he's grown up. We've grown up together in a lot of ways. And, at the age of 25, you know, I messed up. Like, you know, you've you've been around as long as I've been raising boys, men. The men, they're men. They're they're done kind of thing as far as being raised, but they're not done in terms of learning how to live and so on. But, surrender is not a bad thing. Surrender actually is is is something to be admired, by people who are looking for life. Because William said to me, he said, dad, you are the most surrendered man I know. And then with that, he said, and I can trust you and trust to bring you anything about my life. Wow. Now that is proof that surrender is not defeat. Uh-huh. Or if it is, then give me more. Right on. That kind of thing. So For sure. Man, what a gift. Yeah. It really was. I didn't know if he said that to you. Yeah. I kinda it's it's almost it's so good. I didn't wanna tell anybody. I didn't even tell you. Oh, you didn't? Yeah. That's fantastic. But, you know, that little man in my head, I could I could judge William. I could say, oh, son, you don't know. Or Mhmm. You're too young to know what you're talking about. Or I guess I fooled you or all this kind of stuff. But look, there's no way. No way I fooled him. I mean, there's no way. There's too much mess up, too much apology, too much glory, too much celebrating, too much tears and truth telling. You know? Out loud. Out loud. Mhmm. So yeah. And you know what? There's so so much So I have to surrender to that.

I have to surrender to that, to to be loved. Yeah. We will call it, you know, we'll call it uncomfortable, which means really scary. Yeah. Golly. It's scary to be loved. I remember I remember hearing your dad say that. You know, scariest thing you ever do is be loved. Yeah. You know? Yeah. That's a that's a That's true indeed. Territory and that second step, you know, with that restoration, I've heard you talk about going back to re the storehouse store Uh-huh. For something I've been looking for both lanes to be open, heart and head. And think about that now. We the second step's a bridge to beginning to live again, and look how much can be found on that bridge as we Mhmm. You know? And it's a heck of a bridge. It's a tough one, isn't it? Yeah. You know, I did a second step with a guy yesterday,

and there's this key question, you know, how will you know you are backing your disease? Mhmm. How will you know that? You know, the the question of a second step And the answer, it's got all kinds of detail, all kinds of differences depending on the the guy the person. But the answer is always when I am moving back into, not surrendering, not leaning against the door. Mhmm. You know, stopping up one of those lanes. Yeah. That's the answer. It takes on all kinds of different ways Yeah. Depending on a lot of things, but that's the answer. Mhmm. You know, when I'm not surrendering, I'm not paying attention to that. Yeah. So we taught first step, like, helplessness and powerlessness are not the same. Yeah. And sanity and having it all figured out with your brain is not the same. Right. Right? And defeat and surrender are not the same. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's not just a redefining of the words. It's getting back to not just what the words mean like Webster's definition, but what it's like to live them out. Yeah.

What if I don't have to be in control and life could be okay? Yeah. What if life could be okay if I give up control? And what if I can receive and there's no obligation? Like, I'm just loved. Yeah. And what if I become sane to have to step into reality to face I never was in control anyway. Oh, I hate that part. Yeah. For sure. Well, that that's, that's great, great conversation about something so important. Again, you CPE guys have done steps, and hopefully, I pray, continue to do them every day. We mentioned in the last one, Chip said you do a first step every day. He's like, yeah, within the first ten seconds of waking up and several times the rest of the day. Let's talk about sometime too about the importance of the first step,

because the appropriateness of waking up scared every day, it's a normal thing to wake up afraid. So it's reality. For sure. In fact, the more we know, the more recovery we get to have, the more afraid, in a good way, we really are. For sure. So Alright. Chip, let's do it again soon. Alright. Well, I hope you keep driving home. Well, I'll be with you, so that's up to you. Let's find out. Let's get me in your car. Okay. Hey, thanks for listening. Spread the word. Thank you so much. Talk to you soon. See you later. Thanks, Phil.