Coronavirus and Keeping Heart

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

This podcast is brought to you by Sage Hill, a social impact organization. Our mission is to help people be who they're made to be so that they can do what they're made to do. Find more resources to live fully, love deeply, Hi. This is the SATO podcast. This is Stephen James. And today, we have a special edition of the SATO podcast where we, like the rest of the world, are going to be talking about the coronavirus and COVID nineteen, but more specifically about what does it mean for us to care for ourselves well, our neighbors well, and to live out the faith we carry in our hearts that's being changed in us and grown in us through our own recovery and our own redemption. So sit back, take a listen in about thirty minutes till Chip and I discuss What does it mean to keep heart in times such as this? Hey, Stephen.

Hey, Chip. Welcome to the same podcast. Good to talk. Doing a virtual podcast. This is our first podcast from a distance. I'm in Murfreesboro. We usually are sitting right next to each other. Right. And right now, you're in Murfreesboro, and I'm in an undisclosed location. Yeah. You're a secret agent. I'm just a guy. They've got me on lockdown. You know, I I'm I'm finally at the appropriate social distance from you, and I I I thank you. It's funny. If it wasn't so funny, I'd be hurt. Yeah. But the thing is the good news is nobody can hurt you. Right? No one. No one. Unheardable. Unheardable. Like a emotional Teflon. Yeah. Instead of the Incredibles, you're mister Invincible. Mister Invincible. Yeah. Yeah. I want my Hey. But, anyway, I'm glad I'm glad you're feeling okay and glad you're back from Europe. Yeah. Went on vacation to Europe, cut short by the coronavirus,

and now we're back home and in this new new place. Yeah. Great. You had a great expensive adventure and had crisis that went with it, everything. It's just it's a story to tell another day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We are in a we are in a we're in a very different place than we used to be even It's like we at Christmas time. Isn't it amazing? At Christmas, we we were flying high. January 1, New Year's Eve. Oh, my goodness. Like, get ready for the new great year. And it's an amazing weeks, days. We've we're flipped. It's it's astounding how quickly that can happen, you know. Yeah. We're in a different nation than we were thirty days ago. Different world. Different world. Yeah. Let's talk about that.

Well, I'm I'm trying to find words for it, Chip, quite frankly. Like, it's it's I can't even find a metaphor that that describes what's going on. Well, I tell you, it's part for for me, but also as I've been talking to people the last few days, it's been the not knowing. Well, see, here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's some things that we do know though, Stephen. And and and, like, three things. Just three things we know. Especially for those people who are, the faithful believers, in in God. We we who are believers, we're in tragic circumstances, and these are tragic circumstances for sure. Yep. Because we don't have a cure yet. But so, you know, so the flu, what whatever we call the regular flu is tragic because it's death and mayhem, and diabetes is tragic. And it also, you know, we're leaving, liquor stores and, marijuana stores open.

I I thought I I sent you a text when they and here in Nashville, when they made a list of essential businesses, and I was one relieved that Satchel Counseling was on it. Right. And then I was shocked that liquor stores were were on it. And then you pointed out, of course, they are. Yes. Of course, they are. Because, yeah. They're they're essential, businesses, directly connected to what the book that we have coming out in the fall, age of pandemic. Mhmm. But but, anyway, going back to the those of us who are actually believers, you know, this is a no cure, but we also have alcoholism, diabetes, and the list goes on and on and on, and the flu killing thousands and thousands of people. But because we have cures, we seem to think we have control. Well, because those are self inflicted, we seem to think we have control. Like, some of the The flu isn't self inflicted. You know? I know. But it's common. Yeah. And so that we we have grown Wait. That's what I'm saying. You because you brought up it's not known. And but so we're we're comforted by the known even if the known is things seems to be horrific. You know? But here's something else, though. In the not known that you're talking about, there is some known. And for those of us who are believers, we know that we are going to be delivered in this process. We for sure know that we're gonna be delivered from this illness. Will be delivered through the illness as a people, a person, and a nation, or will be delivered to it. And those who are are Christians, like, when we're delivered fully to it, we know that even the end of life is not the end of life. I mean, I hate to to speak that bluntly, but there's a security and guaranteed deliverance that we have. And, so there's there's a known for sure. And then within that context of having confidence, even faith that that we're okay in the midst of tragedy, that we believers are okay in the midst of tragedy, then we can operate accordingly. And what I mean by that is that we remember that we have neighbors around us. And that means that we, you know for example, character is never developed in a crisis that's exposed. Right. And so do we, who know we're gonna who know or not not living in the not known, we live in the known, are we, generous in spirit? Are we hoarding? Are we manipulating? Are we taking more than we can? Are we taking caring. Yeah. Are we are we living in a fear that takes us to wisdom, which I wanna talk about too? Or do we buy into the anxiety, of the the unknown? And so this is a great time for bravery, courage, sharing, love, self control, gentleness, patience, overt acts of caring.

So you say that, and I've not I've not been the calmest person this week. I've had a lot of anxiety. I have done a lot of worst case scenario thinking. Got it. I have not been, as gentle, patient, or as kind as I could to my family. And so it it was a part of me that here's what you're saying, and here's it as a if I'm a believer, I should not be acting this way. I should, have more faith than I do. I should not have anxiety about what's going on. I don't think you're saying that. I love you saying that because, you know, anytime we bring up, believers, there's a sort of a a versus others, you know. Right. And I no way do I mean that. I'm saying that that that we as believers have an opportunity to offer something. But we also have to face, do we have the character of being able to do so? Do we have the character? Because it's not created in a crisis. It's exposed in a crisis, you know. So what do we do with our fear is the question, not whether or not we're we act as we should. It's not about performance, it's about what you got inside. Like, for example, what I'm afraid of, what I get most anxious about, it's it's not the fear of what's gonna happen to me or to my kids or or Sonya, though that's scary. That's really scary. Mhmm. Or my friends, like, you know, some of my friends could die. Mhmm. Sonya could catch it because she has autoimmune disorder. Tennyson and William, they're working, you know, various part of the essential, workforce. So I my anxiety's around other people. My fear is about what other people are going to do more than what I'm gonna do, you know. So I mean, I get that. So then my so my my level of watchfulness and hyper vigilance is up and, you know, I even bought something the other day and put it in my trunk because, I was going somewhere else to another place afterwards. And I thought, could somebody break my windows and take two rolls of paper towels? I mean Like, you're waiting for the looting to start. The, you know, sign you know, people's worries, family stuff, who are who's telling the truth, who can I trust, those kinds of things? But but what we do with fear right now is gonna be really important.

Oh, what I'm doing, I'm making a lot of phone calls, which is good. Yeah. Doing a lot of journaling, and I'm eating everything. Like glass, baseballs. Yeah. Expo dry erase markers. Like, anything you put in front of me, I'm gonna eat it. Yeah. Right now. To to quell what, though? To stop what? Of my childhood, quite frankly. I mean, really, it's the care of being so alone again. Yeah. Well, let let in fact, we're we're doing we're you know, I'm talking about three points, but I wanna speak to that if you don't mind. May I? Yeah. Go ahead. Because, you know okay. The the you you and I talked about this too. This is a vital time to do as much connecting as possible. And whether it's six feet away, going touching base, looking each other in the eyes, because while we can make tremendous amount of contact, but and that's the the solution to everything. What I've noticed that that we're creative for connection, and if we're trying to connect through just contact with, you know, technology and so on, that's not gonna be enough. It's not enough. No. We have to connect because what happens is you said it yourself that if contact is all we have, then all the re all the things that, set us up to be afraid because we're losing connection. So that sends huge amounts of people back into their trauma.

Well, and back into their addiction. Like, I've heard from people this morning who've relapsed now. You know, do you have a ten years of recovery? Yeah. Directly related to loss of connection. Yep. It is. But but but at the same time, there are many ways to connect, Stephen. It's not just just face to face. We can even connect, like, there is a there is a group of women who had begun a, sort of a a I'll just call it sewing, but but, really, it's the art of, you know, quilts and, things for Alzheimer's patients and dementia patients that these amazing, things that were made to help to help people. And they converted as soon as this happened, they immediately converted over to making masks. And people are are going up to their porches and they're they're dropping them off at churches or places Or there's a nurse picking them up at a certain assigned place. But see, these people are actually connecting without being able to see each other, but they know that they are offering themselves to something being received, which is the same thing a child often gets wounded in. They offer themselves to the parent and don't get received. Right. So their their connection doesn't have to be eyeball to eyeball. It's giving yourself and being received. And can I be part of something bigger than myself? Right now, people who are out of work, you know, and out of community,

they're not part of something bigger than themselves. Yes. And that's what I'm getting to when I talk about, like, this is a great time, a tragic time, but an opportunity time for all of us to walk through our fear in a legitimate good way towards whatever we can do to stay connected, like generosity, gentleness, patience, care, not hoarding, offering ourselves, taking a risk of saying hey to people we never would have spoken to before when we're six feet away at the store, making comment to say we're gonna get through it. Or are you looking for paper towels? There's somewhere in the back there. Or Or thank you. Or thank you. Yeah. This is a time because connection is more, like I say, than what we think of in terms of just eyes. Mhmm. It it's it's it's through those risking of giving how we're created

to others, we connect. Oh, I took the the dog for a walk couple days ago in our neighborhood with the family. It was that part was nice. Mhmm. All of us. It's so nice having my daughter home from college for the next six months. I'm actually excited about that. Yeah. And hope it's not that long. Yeah. Well, it will be because she's out all summer. So it will That's true. Hope it's just that long. You know? Yeah. Yeah. But And, you know we were in the neighborhood, and there were people everywhere walking their dogs. Yes. Like, everywhere. You know? And they're getting some air. Yep. But the way we're created, they're actually we're actually looking for each other. And and and I with with that's what I actually noticed. That's where I was going is. Yeah. The kindness that we showed each other by, like, coordinating space, like, everybody was moving to opposite sides of the streets and smiling and saying hi and stopping, introducing themselves and Yep. You know, and it was there was so much kindness and gentleness being displayed with among strangers, you know. Yep. Yep. Who were out in air quotes to walk their dog, but they weren't.

Yes. They weren't just out to walk their dog. Yeah. And so this is a time, like, I I dropped a mask off. Well, you know, because Sonya is actually one of the people making these masks. Okay? So I may sound like this this sewing group in Iowa or something. But anyway and I I took I took a mask to the dentist office, and he said, I'll tell you something. I wanted this mask for two reasons. One is because I need it, and I need two more if she's willing to make them or if the group can make them. But he also said, I'm keeping it also as a souvenir because I'm gonna remember this time. And he was speaking to when people show up for each other at a time when we think it wouldn't happen because we're too removed from, you know, how we were made or too removed from moral compunction or too removed. But people who are capable of caring are caring. And he's planning on saving it for for the rest of his life to remember. Yeah. Because he felt cared for. Because he felt cared for. Yes. He he loved and people shared and people that who didn't necessarily even know each other were were, helping hands because we're all in this in one empathic boat. You know? It's a it we can either create a boat of empathy or boat of disaster. Mhmm. And there's another thing, Matt Matt, the the three things. One is Yeah. Yeah. That's the third one. Yeah. One is that we're delivered and two two two is that it's it's a time for, expressing character that's been being developed and waiting for such a time as this for some you know, for quite a while. Because that's what we do the the disciplines for. And then, third is, I remember when I was at at I was up at Suwanee for a year and a half at school, and the the little lake would freeze and it was a shortcut to class. And I was, walking across the lake. It was, like, mid February, maybe almost March. And, and it would save about 300 yards. Okay? So and everybody did it. Right? But I was late for class. I was by myself. I started out across the lake like normal. And even though the temperature warmed some, I was about halfway out. And all of a sudden, it's like, I the you know that cracking sound where you can see the crack? Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. And I'm I I just stopped. And and and I've seen the cracks go forward and then, you know, kind of a compass north, south, east, and west. Yes. And I'm kinda right in the middle of the compass going like, oh, god. You know? It's like I'm just trying to get to class. Yeah. I'm just trying to go to class. Now the thing is, the lake probably went that deep, and my problem no. No. No. No. But but the question is, there's a moment of real fear. Yes. And our fear can move towards faith of, you know, hoping and taking risks, you know, proper risk and reaching out, and we can develop a deeper wisdom and a deeper story of connection with each other. Or I would've been hyper anxious and gone into overdrive control and become desperate and reacted. But instead, I stopped. And instead of running forward to hurry up, I started backing up really slowly. You know, taking my time, trying to grasp, keeping my feet flat. I was trying to just save myself, man, because I thought I'm going to as possible. No. So, anyway, I backed up. And, after that, I never went across that, lake again until, you know, you know, until the well, whatever the next year would come, but I was done. I learned. I learned. Okay. So we're gonna if we'll do fear properly during this time, we're gonna learn a lot. You know? We're gonna we're gonna be a safer, smarter, wiser, more faithful people. And so the one thing I haven't been hearing that much about during all of this from the news media is everything I just talked about. I'm not hearing much about God as much as I would like to, as much as I think we need. I'm not hearing as much about it's time to give, it's time to risk and trust, and I'm not hearing much about how to handle this emotionally because this is scary. But what do we do with fear? So I love that you and I are doing this podcast. Like, it's it's it's these people it's gut check time, and this is scary.

You know, it's I I I do resonate with what you said that it does expose our character. It also exposes our trauma. It exposes our faith. It exposes our need. It exposes, for me, the gift I'm walking in today is it exposes my powerlessness and and the the paradoxical freedom that I'm experiencing on in my powerlessness. It's like there's so little I can actually do. There there's so little I can control. There's there's, no way to be heroic, in this. You know, my childhood script tells me to be the hero. Right? Or just faint. But my good enough or my try hard is not gonna change coronavirus. So it's like, what is really needed? And, you know, it it's yeah. For me, it's been kindness and creativity and

compassion have been have been And doing what we can. I mean, I it's like, where where can I serve? Just like when you talked about doing this podcast, I'm like, yeah. And I've been invited to do, like, a couple of FaceTime lives, you know, and I'm just like, yes. Yes. The answer is yes. Yes. You know, where where can I bring what I do and how, you know, how I operate, you know, to to the process? Mhmm. Hey, Stephen. You know something too? Like, you you brought up powerlessness, and I think therein is the crux of the whole deal. We're experiencing what we're living like a 100% of the time. Yes. And when Yeah. When the child we once were has to face powerlessness, then that's where all those childhood issues come up Yes. Of unmet needs, of of struggles and traumas, losses and pains, rejections and wounds. Yes. And and so powerlessness, the condition we actually live in every day, becomes this sense of helplessness and that's where the relapses occur. Because when you're broken from connection or you're you're you're broken from genuine connection, then powerlessness becomes helplessness. Does that make sense? You're destiny. It

feels like helplessness. Yeah. My my limbic brain, you know, my heart gets reminded of trauma and abandonment, betrayal, those kind of thing. You know? And the very, very time that we tend to withhold is time to reach out. I mean, this is hot out or cry out time. Yeah. You know, so I pray that we we all, just reach out and and stay as connected as we can either through giving or asking for help. Giving and receiving. That means Giving and yeah. Yeah. Because sometimes it's more for me, it's far more courageous to ask for help and receive than it is to give help. Yes. Does it take it doesn't take me any courage to to offer help, you know. It does take a lot of time. You know, I kinda I agree with you 100%, but I think it takes a lot of courage to be offering help right now. When you start talking about sharing what people are hoarding Oh, absolutely.

Yeah. Yeah. No. I'm just talking about myself. It's like Yeah. Yeah. We tend to go with the, yeah. The the idea of me asking is like, oh, I don't wanna do this. But we that's connection too. Right? There's a guy, by the way, Stephen. There's this doctor I was talking to yesterday. He's, I was doing a FaceTime with him, and then his wife got on. And she's really, really mad at him. Okay? And because We're not talking about me and Heather, though, are you? No. No. No. No. No. I'm talking about yeah. Yeah. Like, yeah. I'm using the like like yes. This doctor, his name's Stephen. Doctor I know. Yeah. This friend of mine. Not Stephen James. No. But but it was he's he's he's older. I mean, he's like 72. And he has been in the wars. I mean, I'm talking about he wasn't just a a you know, I don't mean just anything, but he wasn't just a regular run of the mill small town doctor. You know, we're talking about overseas. We're talking about helicopters. I don't wanna get too much into it, but wherever disaster was, there he went. You know? Mhmm. And he is, he also has some significant pulmonary issues these days. Basically, a COPD. And he is chomping at the bit. He said, they're gonna call me up. I need to be prepared. And where do I go? And and I just can't stand sitting here because I feel so guilty. And his wife got on the and she's so mad at him because she said, if you leave, you won't come back because, you know, he is the patient that corona takes. He's the person corona takes. Right? Yeah. So we had to walk through yesterday what, you know, what's going on with you? One is that he he loves battle. You know, he's that's where he was most alive in his life, and he's hearkening back to those glorious days. So I had to help him say, hey, it's over. And, and grieve that you the the poem of Ulysses, that's like it's your and your your your your history is now that. So, you know but you you know, your history was trying to get home. Ulysses was trying to get home. So you made it home. You have a wife. You have a daughter. The grandkids are living with you. What's the bravest, most courageous, most beneficial place you could be? At home. Exactly. Right where you are. And yet his wife is saying, but he won't he's all we're talking about is the news and when am I gonna leave, and he's threatening to leave all the time. And so I'm unsafe now. What he knows. Yeah. Yes. So I said grieve that this isn't your glory moment. Grieve that the glory is in loving the people around you. Love who who you're with. Love who God has given you. Love who you you you've chosen to be with. I mean I have I have said been saying for a while,

that the people that need our love the most are people in our own own home and then our neighbors. If we just get the neighbor to our left and to our right Yep. We just did that. Everyone in the world's taken care of. That is so well said and so true. And that seems so small because it's not broadcasted. But that's the one of my neighbors left another neighbor flowers on her front door yesterday. And, and there may have been some historical disagreement between these two people as neighbors sometimes does. Wow. Right? And then these flowers show up. And it's like, all this woundedness was healed. You know? Because Wow. The neighbors she didn't think would care for her gave her flowers. You know? And I just so sweet. And I I do think that those smaller acts that aren't, I guess everything is Facebook worthy or Instagram worthy these days, but they're not aren't aren't attention seeking behaviors. They're just small acts of kindness and sharing what we have to share. If we would turn to our left and to our right and give it to the person on each side of us, man, the world's a better place.

And and that's that's some great stuff to put out on Facebook done Yep. Or or what you've heard, put it out now. Yeah. Because we all need to be encouraged to do the brave thing. Yes. And which is to to to to love. Yeah. To love. Yeah. It's a great job. And and it doesn't go ahead. Stop there today. Let's stop there and then let's end up And we're not talking, like, some phony, cliche, sweet, syrupy stuff. We're not talking that. No. We we yeah. We know health care professionals who are out there, and they're doing the brave. This is not syrup. This is real living reality. And the and as you said earlier, the the grocery clerks, the the food delivery drivers, the Amazon people, like Frank them. These these are very brave. And Yep. And some of them are desperate. They're just working to work. Yep. Freaking

teenagers, older people, they're they're they're they're in harm's way every time that we walk into a grocery store, and they're there. Yep. And and on some level some level, they need to know it's for more than a paycheck. Yeah. And we can give that to them. That's great, Chip. Yep. Thank you, Stephen. Alright, man. Well, thanks thank you all for listening to the Sage Hill podcast. Yeah. Thank y'all. Mhmm. If you can if we can be of more help, reach out to us at chip..com or at sagehillcounseling.com. And, we're here to help, and we're available. And, we're in it with you. This is one of the greatest times of human experience because we're all going through the same thing. And I think there's some paradoxical comfort in that that we're not alone in this, that we're in this together, and we can help each other get through it together too. I love your idea of sharing love and being brave in it. Yeah. Alright. Our hearts don't need to melt in fear with anxiety.

Oh, that's good. I like that. Good. See you, Steve. Alright. Thank you. Alright. Bye. This podcast is brought to you by Sage Hill, a social impact organization. Our mission is to help people be who they're made to be so that they can do what they're made to do. Find more resources to live fully, love deeply, and lead well at sagehillresources.com.