The Emotional and Relational Costs of Addiction

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

This podcast is brought to you by Sage Hill, a social impact organization. Our mission is to help people be who they're made to be so that they can do what they're made to do. Find more resources to live fully, love deeply, and lead well at sagehillresources.com. Hey. This is Stephen James, executive director of Sage Hill Counseling. Thanks for listening to the Sage Hill Live Fully podcast. I'm joined today by my good friend, Dr. Chip Dodd from chipdodd.com. We're discussing our new book, Hope in the Age of Addiction, How to Find Freedom and Restore Your Relationships. Hey, Chip. Stephen. Good morning. Good morning, Chip Dodd. You remember that movie Good Morning, Vietnam? Yes. I do. Now that I've not watched that in probably twenty years. A lot of people don't know that movie. Heck because it's old. They And you just dated yourself. I dated myself. I'm usually the one that gets dated. Right? Oh, yeah. I'm getting dated more and more. How old are you now? I'm 47. I turned 47 this summer. Okay. Which feels a lot like 50. Does it? You stay 47, it's like, that's close to 50. That's closer to 50 than almost anything. You know what? That that that, that is 50. You are 50.

50 ish. I'm 70. Yeah. 62, but it's like 62 is still 60. I don't know, man. It's a crossover. So, you know, we're doing this series of podcasts on our new book, Hope in the Age of Addiction. Great book. Yeah. And we've talked about the pandemic and the numbers behind the pandemic Yeah. That we're we've we've talked about this invisible dragon and how denial and dissociation, feed the dragon that's out to destroy us all. Yes. Right. Allows the dragon to work and seduces us away from how we're made. Yeah. The dragon always lures us towards a treasure. Right? Yeah. It does. Yeah. And then consumes us. And then burns us up. Yeah. We have a chapter in the book, that's on the emotional and relational cost of addiction. Yeah. So we and we talk about the the numbers of pandemic and kind of the societal cost. Yeah. But there's an emotional and relational cost Yes. To addiction. Yes. Yeah. And, you know, as we step into this,

section of the book, I I want us to reiterate, addiction isn't a badness. It's an illness that is a result of what happens when we're not raised to deal with ourselves relationally. And we're not skilled. We don't have the skills to deal with life. Or it's it's been ignored. We we we we we are not helped to keep the skills of vulnerability and resilience in the midst of that. Mhmm. Because, ultimately, addiction, bottom line, after the illness passes because it's a sickness, Stephen. We've nobody, like you said in the earlier podcast, nobody plans to take a drink and ten years later be in prison. That's not a goal. That's not a mission. Yeah. Who destroyed my life? Yeah. I get up and drive my car over a cliff and, you know, lose my house and and and and wind up in jail for, you know, something. Mhmm. Nobody. It's it's the addiction isn't insane. Addiction is actually a a logical attempt, though impaired, to do something good for ourselves. Mhmm. We're trying to find the experience of living fully without having to pay the price of betraying the family, giving up to, to the traditions, becoming vulnerable. So which leads us into the emotional And that's the biggest cost of addiction is is the emotional and relational and spiritual cost. Let's just take let's just take so we can do the math easily. Let's just say twenty million alcoholics, and I again say that number is small. And we know from research that three to four people are detrimentally impacted by one alcoholic. Okay? And that impact is Long term significant psychological emotional impairment. Yes. Meaning that that they have to be in denial and and some form of dissociation to be in relationship with the alcoholic. Right. They have to harm themselves in order to stay in relationship. Yes. Because but they have to remain convinced that this isn't what it is. And sometimes in adults, like, it harms me to stay in relationship with the addict, but it also harms me to get out of relationship with the addict. Like, I'm harmed either way. Yes. Yes. So so so survival is the focus instead of thriving. Right. Okay. So you survive addiction and and survive it by suppression of who you're made to be. So twenty million alcoholics, three people, not four. So those numbers are are smaller than recorded. Right? Research shows. So we can make it bigger, but we're gonna make it small. We're gonna make it really small. So twenty million alcoholics times three people detrimentally impacted, which means that they have to go into denial and dissociation, which means the dragon's already after them. The dragon's gonna get them. It will get them unless something changes. Operating on all their cylinders at that point. They they do not have emotional availability and to speak it, to attach to it, to become have their own identities. They have to belong and matter through the sacrifice of their identities called co dependency rather than the flourishing of their identities called thriving as a human. Right? So three times 20 is sixty million. That's eighty now. Sixty million plus twenty million is eighty million people. Just alcohol. Right. Just alcohol alone. Not drugs, not sex Not illegal drugs, not gambling, not that other number. Disorders, not drugs. Okay. So take the fifteen million illegal drug addicts. So these are numbers. Just illegal. Not for sure. Not not so just those, not not the church folks who are who are hooked on Darvocet and Percocet and so on. So so so you've got thirty million, no, forty five million people, friends, family, coworkers, and children, emotionally and relationally wounded, scarred, and suppressed, imprisoned by denial and associations. Steve, this is A hundred and twenty five million. Just those two categories. You added it up? Yeah. So that's what is it, so that's 80,000,000 plus 45,000,000 plus 60,000,000. So 80 plus 60. That's a hundred and forty million people Yeah. Who were involved actively in addiction because denial means that you've gotta find a way to self soothe, self cure without emotional experience of a true attachment. Let's talk about then specifically. The pandemic. Well, no. I wanna talk about No. I'm just saying I just thought of the word Yeah. Pan it's like very pandemic. Instead of being ourselves,

we all in in living our lives with people we love, we end up playing roles in our lives in order to fit in in relationship with the addict. And there's some classic roles. Right? Yeah. So you got the addict. Yeah. Right? And then right next to And all self. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And then the addict is in a compulsive habitual state of seeking relief all the time. Yeah. But then right next to the attic, you you almost always have one or two of these other people called an enabler. Yeah. Right. What's an enabler? Tell tell us what the enabler does. And you know, the the addict isn't always using, but they're preoccupied with escaping. Yeah. They're either preoccupied with escaping escaping or coming out of escaping. Right? And and and this the addict makes promises.

They're they're they're they're promising that it's this, that's going to be. So so life is always in the future. Yeah. And that's what the enabler and the other roles are functioning on. If I do this, then that will happen. So it's all that. Plus, if I don't do this, I'll be exposed. And then I'll feel ashamed, and I'll get rejected, and I won't belong in matter. So it's a tightrope. Yeah. So the enabler is the person who teaches everybody else in the family how to cooperate. In the office. Or in the office. Or yeah. Yeah. And and it it means to reinforce or encourage addiction, enabling. Keep it going. Yes. In the name of helping. Yeah. So what could be going on with this person? It ain't love. Well, it it it it it's twisted love. Yeah. Twisted. Just like the addiction is a way to feel better, the enabler is a way to not be afraid because when they don't love, quote, unquote, like they're supposed to, shoulds, then they feel terrible. And then then so the enabler is teaching people, and they establish rules. Yes. And so there's gotta be and and in in the addictive family, there really isn't enough love to go around. Okay? So so the children are kinda scrapping for it. They're they're a little bit They're all they're all after the same bone and the bead on the bone. Yeah. No matter how wealthy or how, appearing to be poor, impoverished. So it's this isn't about money. This is about emotional and and and relational neediness. Right? How we're creative. So there's a hero. There's gonna be somebody who's gonna be the wave the flag and make the family proud and reduce the shame. Golden child. The golden child. These are all versions of the hero. Mama's helper, daddy's helper. Yeah. The one who gets rewarded for not feeling. Right. But inside They achieve instead of feel. Yes. So they're the hero. Perform instead of being present. Great. And they're Do good. Yeah. And they're teaching the other kids what they can't be and what they should be. Because I mean, there's not enough love go around, so there's gonna only gonna be really one hero. Yeah. Until that kid is gone or killed off, there's gonna be the next role because they're all fighting for this out of the same love pot. So, usually, there's the hero and then there's the scapegoat. And yeah. And the scapegoat is the in the ancient times was the the goat that they they placed their hand the priest placed their hands on the goat's head. Covered with blood. Yeah. And they opened the gates of the village and said, get out and wander in the desert till you die. So the scapegoat Which wouldn't take long because the lion would smell and hear Oh, yeah. Blood. So so the scapegoat is the kid that gets rejected because he won't cooperate. And that kid's usually the truth teller. The rebel. Uh-huh. And he finds, she finds, camaraderie with peers because there's not enough love in the family. The hero's already sucked up whatever prestige or to get, belonging there is or mattering. And usually, that hero is bonded with the enabler parent. Yes. They're a force. Yeah. Then after the scapegoat, there's we're we're talking about less and less going so there's a mascot Which is the funny kid. Funny kid makes the jokes. Yep. Yeah. The the scapegoat takes tension away from the problem. The mascot reduces tension in the present of what's happening. Right? So you blame the scapegoat. You laugh at the mascot, and the mascot really feels fragile within, insecure. A ton of shame. Yeah. If if I'm not funny, if I'm not silly, but also if I grow up, I can't grow up. So they they don't believe they're really capable. Yeah. You know, they're sort of they they're considered like a the pampered child or buffered, not affected by what was going on. So the family celebrates around their fake joy. And then there's the lost child. The saddest figure of all, I think. Even more than the scapegoat. They they live in the shadows. Even down in the open, they're not seen. Yes. The one you don't have to worry about because they're just not there. That child usually feels most insecure and it usually, Stephen, is most dissociated in an evident way. You know, they they literally do the escape. The scapegoat has the power of truth telling. They will fight. The hero has the power of sort of being successful, knowing how to get approval. Mhmm. The mascot knows how to interact. Like, so they all you're getting relational feedback. And we all have diff I mean,

most of us don't live in systems or grow up in families where we're just one of those. We usually have the flavor of a couple of those. Mix and match. Yeah. The healthier family, the more experimental the child is allowed to be around all these different roles, mixing and matching and stuff like that in terms of emotional and, relational expression. And then but the lost child is not bonded relationally. Yeah. So they they look out at the world. Themselves. I know. Yeah. And they look out at the world, and they see just, a horrifying place, Not where the smell of cinnamon means it's good bread, if the smell of cinnamon means a a better run. It's a threat. So that it's very sad. Now these these five roles, the enabler is pretty consistent. But the other four, like you said, mix and match in some ways. And also there are many others. There's lots of other names. Claycater, the Pleaser Yeah. The the the beauty queen,

the the king. I mean, you know, all this King baby. King yeah. King baby. That's the attics. That's the attic. King baby, queen baby. Yeah. So so the all but all of those roles work in service to keep the addict sick. That's that's the thing that blows my mind every time. Right? Yes. Like, is that is that we're so made for relationship Yes. And we so love people we're in relationship with Yes. That we're made to love Yes. That we end up playing. We lose ourselves to play these roles to keep the family or the or the workplace or, like, the culture all working together. Status quo. We we want the status quo. We want because the status quo is Is it. Safe. It feels safe. Everything else is feelings. Yeah. So the ship is sinking. A great example to the Titanic. Yeah. The ship is sinking, and all the family members are moving the deck chairs around Yeah. And repainting things while it's going down. Because to feel is to reject, abandon, the the relationships in the family. Yeah. It breaks the family apart, we think. And in in all of my addictions work over the years, I I I will talk to the the I mean, you know, you doctors I mean, the most educated people that we're not talking about Stanford, Harvard, Princeton, New York. Right? Like, big smart people. I mean, smart people like that. But smart people are big. I mean, they're big. They're accomplished a lot. But but they're they're giants in in our worlds. Right? And the what they're running from and in spite of all their success, what they're terrified of are the eight feelings. Mhmm. Eight feelings, Stephen. Eight feelings feel to them like death. And this is what I've said to them over the years. Two things are guaranteed to happen if you have a feeling. Two things. And they're like, okay, what is it? Because I know I've never known what this is. And I say, number one, you're gonna feel it. K? And and and that is actually horrifying, like Yeah. To feel it, to my heart to beat with it. But see, anxiety takes the place of real feelings, and depression takes the place of real feelings, and stoic apathy takes place. Toxic shame basically. Toxic shame. Yeah. And and I say number one, you're gonna feel it, and number two, you're gonna have memories. You're gonna remember. In other words, but you're not gonna die from feeling. No one's ever died from feelings. No. Yeah. No. But you will join your life. Mhmm. And that's what that's what addiction demands we run from. Addiction is the solution

to avoiding Well, because living our lives. Most in my experience working with some of those high achieving people, whether it be a a doctor or a business owner or a professional athlete, like they're actually more prone for for addiction Yeah. Than the ordinary person. Yeah. Right? Because they've they have had to achieves tried tried to achieve and accomplish so much in order to feel self love or self worth. Right? That it doesn't work, that they have to turn to some other thing so they can They keep going. They can keep going. Mhmm. Right? Because the idea of stopping is terrifying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the idea that, in my experience that people like me, can get recovery, frankly, earlier and faster than those people are talking about. That's ordinary folks. You know, because, the feelings are closer and the achievement, isn't something to cling to because it's just not enough of it. So so the way out of those roles

then just like when we talk about denial and dissociation, we start with the question of where am I, the way out of the roles of that we play that keep us sick. The role I play that that I found in my family of origin and I've continued to play in my grown up life keeps me sick, and it keeps the people who love me the most away from me. Right? Yeah. And it keeps me away from them. Right? Yeah. So the the way out of that is is begin to say what I see. Right? Like, this is what I see. And when I see, like you said a second ago, I'm gonna feel. I'm going to feel. Yeah. Because see means to receive. Look means to observe. Yeah. So you look at something, you're not in it. You see something, it's gotten to you. Yeah. Yeah. So once I see, I feel.

And being able to like some of the psychological research I've read, the minute I can label my feelings, it actually decreases my anxiety. It's power. It's yeah. It's empowering. Yep. Yep. I know where I am. In a system where I couldn't feel and I couldn't have words form except upset or too much or what, you know. Yeah. Then I could say I'm lonely, I'm angry. All of a sudden my anxiety goes down. Yes. Right? And your vulnerability goes up. Your vulnerability goes up. And, Stephen, what's amazing about that is isn't that amazing? When god said IECA, it wasn't, expose yourself. It was become empowered again. Yeah. Where are we? To join. So when like you said, and the research has shown that if I can name where I am, I'm no longer lost. Right. Okay. So where I'm feeling is where I am. So at that point, decision making capacity starts. I have needs. Yes. Your frontal lobe has an active purpose

to deal with what you're feeling. That's called joining. And then Join with yourself. And then it instead of this negative perception that everything's gonna be bad if I have feelings and needs. Right? Yeah. Then I I I get this you know, we write in the book. I imagine myself in a positive future. Right? Like, this actually Freedom. Like, this might turn out okay. Like It could. It could turn out okay, which people hate hearing. Yes. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Because, risk means anxiety Yeah. And really means fear. Which feels like I did when I was younger. Yes. And fear is there to help us. And the limbic brain doesn't know age. It just knows. Knows the his just knows that. Yeah. So asking for help. And so then we have to go to the care of others. Yes. Right. And if I receive help, if I ask for help and I receive help, that's very scary. Yeah. Okay. Because one, it makes me dependent. It also starts a thing called faith in how I'm created. Well, if I grew up in a system of addiction,

I didn't have anybody to go to for help. And if I went to like you said, there's only a certain amount of love going on. Right. And if there's just a little bit of air, it couldn't wasn't enough to share. And if I ask for my peace, that means the people I love weren't getting their peace. Yes. Right? And so the idea of being a person in recovery says, I need like, I feel I need, but to get what I need, I need help. Will you be with me in it? Yes. It's super scary because our core belief is we gotta do it alone. Yeah. I've I've gotta be independent, powerful, and be realistic. Now let's repeat something. It's very important. When we say there's not enough love to go around, it doesn't mean that family members don't love each other. No. They love each other tenaciously and with great extraordinary loyalty, even dying for each other. But the love there's no bandwidth of emotional capacity of expression and tolerance for difference, tolerance for one's own identity. Yeah. The love is like a big enmeshment collusion. And we have a, well, a a great love affair going on in our culture with addiction.

Yeah. We we say this Commercials. Yeah. We'll end with this. Being controlled by addiction keeps us from seeing what is happening around us. It keeps us from the lives we were made to have. We can't be who we're made to be. In the name of love, we end up sacrificing our freedom and well-being on the altar of addiction. Amen. Yeah. Thanks, Chip. Yep. Thank you. This podcast is brought to you by Sage Hill, a social impact organization. Our mission is to help people be who they're made to be so that they can do what they're made to do. Find more resources to live fully, love deeply, and lead well at sagehillresources.com.