How Normal Becomes Addiction

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

This podcast is brought to you by Sage Hill, a social impact organization. Our mission is to help people be who they're made to be so that they can do what they're made to do. Find more resources to live fully, love deeply, and lead well at sagehillresources.com. Hey. This is Stephen James, executive director of Sage Hill Counseling. Thanks for listening to the Sage Hill Live Fully podcast. I'm joined today by my good friend, Dr. Chip Dahn from chip.com. We're discussing our new book, Hope in the Age of Addiction, How to Find Freedom and Restore Your Relationships. Hey, Chip. Stephen, hey. I'm I'm watching the recording device as we speak. It's hypnotic. I wanna make sure that well, it's it's actually, I don't want it to quit. It's like we're growing bald tires here. This is the next installment in our podcast series based on our new book, Hope in the Age of Addiction. Yes. Great cover for the book. Love the cover. Love the cover. It's hard to talk about the book without talking about the great cover. And, you know, if the cover is an indication If I listen to this podcast, I'm going, is the inside not good? Yeah. That's actually that's something. If the cover is an indication, I I promise you that what's in it is even better than the cover, and the cover is great. One of my favorite things about the book,

is we had some friends who we know contribute their personal stories of recovery, of addiction recovery, whether it's from codependency or being a child and as an an addict or their own story of hope and redemption recovery. Like, the book is is actually, almost more than half of it are their stories. They're personal stories of hope. Yes. And it's and it's not it's it is not like the stories in a lot of the text that we were trying to read in terms of the gave the clinical cases. This is a story of of what happened, you know, where I was, what happened, and where I am now Yeah. Which is the story of life that we all need to learn to say to to be in our own lives. So, you know, where I was, what happened to where I am now, except in this case, it's literally a story of hope about this is what the invisible dragon had done in terms of what happened for me to get out of its lair and where I live today, aware of where it is, and therefore, I can see it, and therefore, I know how to not step back into where it lives. I'm free.

I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. Yeah. Well, this this which is so hopeful. Yeah. Right? This podcast, this this episode, we're we're gonna be talking about how normal becomes addiction. Yeah. And we're gonna look at normal and common. Common. Normal versus common. Now I wanna start with this reading from, the New Testament from Paul's letter to the Romans. It says, I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do, I do not do, but what I do, I hate. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do, I do not want to do. I keep on doing. Yes. What an incredible story. I mean, it's such a picture of addiction. I'm not saying Paul may or may not have been an addict. Right. But he's certainly describing the rhythms, the flow

of addiction. Yes. And he's talking about how the intellect and the willpower and even moral directive, the law itself, is not an escape or a solution from this struggle. But Paul's awakened this. He's not living in denial. He's not dissociated. He's experiencing the pain of being human. And what's so astounding is, like, that that verse that chapter seven goes into chapter eight, the solution, it's like reconnection with God, self awake to need, and others involved because he's crying out to others. I found it. I found it. I found it. I know what to do. It's not my thinking. It's not my morality. It's not my effort. It's not my do good. Yes. And and and the steps But even with all that, even my my spiritual enlightenment hasn't saved me from this thing. No. I'm spiritually enlightened. There's not enough mindfulness. And and I've I've I've got an I and I still keep doing what I don't wanna do. I don't wanna do this, but I can't not do it. Right. And mindfulness is a piece

of what you can do after the solution. And so what's amazing is that he literally is screaming, the the big spirit, must walk and testify with my spirit in connection, that it is a it is an emotional and spiritual solution to have recovery in addiction. It doesn't stop the struggle because we're always gonna struggle with the struggle he's talking about, but there is a hope, a love, and a walk, of faith in the solution. I know so many Christians who are ashamed because they believe that believing in God means they they can't be an addict. Yes. And they're still an addict. Right? They're still an active addiction. And they see themselves as bad, failed, cursed. Something's wrong with me as opposed to like I'm sick. And sick. Yeah. So I'm a set the table with these these two things we talk about in the book. The normal human experience and how the normal becomes the common addiction tragedy. Yeah. Right? Okay. So we say in the book is that that as emotional spiritual creatures created for relationship, what's normal is we're made to cry out, reach out, and take in. And we're made to do that. Yeah. Right? We're made to express our feelings, our needs, our desire, our longings, our hope in response that in doing that, like, when we cry out and then we reach out, that someone's gonna reach back towards us. Yes. Right? You know? And then we're supposed to take in the thing that's come back our way. Yes. Love, acceptance, confirmation of who we are, affirmation of who we are. That is the every human being except people who are, like, significantly cognitively impaired. Right? Like birth like significant birth effect. Yes. They they're they're not Like psychopaths. We we well, and people that like her just it's deformity. Yeah. They have to be taken care of by us. But that's such a small percentage. Very small. Yeah. So everybody else is made to cry out. Yep. Is made to reach out and made to take in. Right. That's normal. Absolutely. From from down syndrome all the way to some inborn genius. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's normal. Yes. Right? But then there's this common human experience. Yeah. Right? Because we're made to cry out, reach out, and take in. We're also then experience wounding, abandonment, harm, disappointment, death. We bump into tragedy. We bump into lifestyle. Life's tragedy. Right? So we say things to ourself. We make vows to ourself that say, I won't let that happen again. They can't get to me. Only a fool would allow that to happen. I'll never care that much again. I can't let people know what I did or how I feel. Yeah. Right? I'm going to make sure I'm safe. Yep. You know? I'm gonna get mine. I'm gonna get mine. I'll only be loved for what I do for others. Yes. You know? I can only be loved if I succeed. And I must remain alone to be safe. So tell me, Chip, like, if that's those those sayings are the common vows that people carry. Mhmm. Right? What happens between what's normal

and what's common? And and and and what's amazing is that the central focus of all those vows is what we've been talking about in the other podcast. What what must I do to avoid having to feel my feelings, eight feelings, glad, sad, anger, guilt, lonely, fear, shame, and hurt, would I do to avoid being vulnerable to those feelings, being in need related to them, and reaching out from them? In other words, avoiding how I was born, as you said, because we talk about in the book, the Apgar, a child is born, expressing creation and creator with, crying out, reaching out, and taking in beautifully talked about in the book. Now, Stephen, what's amazing about that, it's taken with normal just for a moment so we go back to the common, is is Jesus talks about living the full life in in when he delivers the Sermon on the Mount. And in in reference to you do not receive because you do not ask. And he's talking about grown ups. He's talking about he's talking to all these adult figures around. Blessed are those in pain. Yeah. Yeah. Blessed are those group. Like, he starts with that. Yeah. Here's the full life, folks. Right. But he said he said, ask and you shall receive, which is the inborn grown up expression of cry out. That's the cry out. And then he says, seek and you will find, which is The reach out. The inborn expression of reach out. And he says, knock, and the door will be opened unto you, which is take in. You're invited in to have a meal, which means you're fuller and you have something to give because you have strength to give it. Home to go to. So do you hear he describes grown up as you do never leave behind that which you were created to experience. Oh, there's a story there that's normal. So keeping that grown up and growing up that version of being human, which renders us powerless, renders us in need, but renders us empowered when we are in on the ship of fellows. Now, so that's normal. So And what's common Common though is Jeremiah 17 Yeah. Five and six, which we've used over and over again and it says, because of our woundings, it doesn't say this, but because of our wounding It does not say of our our best our best thinking, because of our intellect and our willpower, and our I'll fix it myself. I'll I will prove myself worthy. I'll survive. I'll prove myself. I I will survive. And it says literally, it says, cursed is the person, man, in this case, but cursed is the person, which means isolated from normal. Mhmm. You've you literally have stepped away from normal. You removed yourself from yourself. You will not it says cursed is the person who depends upon their own strength, who trusts in their own flesh. Okay. So my way, I will, all those sorts of things, those vows you just read Yeah. And it says it literally says whose heart has turned away from God. And really, that means turned away from how we're created even, the Imago Dei. And it says that person will be like a bush planted in the wastelands, and this is the amazing thing, even when prosperity comes, because all those all of us who committed those vows, Stephen, there were people who wanted to love us after we made those vows, and we wouldn't let them. And it says, cursed is that person. They will be like a tree planted in the wastelands even when prosperity comes, care, love, tenderness, somebody who wants to find us, somebody who who who wants to, care about us, somebody who wants to to bring us in and and and and eat with us, we reject. So even when prosperity comes, we can't see it. And we talked about earlier in in our podcast and in the book that unless you can see, you're in denial. Yeah. And seeing means to receive. And so we see through normal. I mean, Paul talks later in one of the other epistles. He says, I pray that the eyes of your hearts will be enlightened so that you can know the hope, the power, and the glory of living how you were created in attachment to god who saves us and others. So,

really, you know That's normal. That's normal. Is to is to be attached. Right? To God and others. But almost all of us, every one of us experiences disruptions in our attachment. Sure. Right? Through relational woundedness. Yes. Right? And through trauma. Yes. Right? And when we've been relationally wounded Yeah. Right? And that's not been repaired or reattuned with the person who wounded us, or we experienced trauma, which is an inability to make sense of all the stuff that's going on around us. Or we were raised in ignorance, which means ignoring what's happening below our forehead. Or we were then trained Yep. To ignore our our normative Yeah. It's not stupid. It's ignoring. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We are set off then in this in into this wasteland of survival. I will survive Yes. Which is actually glorious in some ways. It like the human heart is made to live. The human body is made to live. Yes. The mind is made to live. William Faulkner's great quote that we I believe that the human being or the human,

the human creature will not just survive but prevail. But we're talking about often prevailing really means sticking with our vows to the end so we can have our pride and the removal of our pain, but no one can do that without becoming addicted. Right. Addiction is the common. It is the common. Uh-huh. Because because of the vows that need to be broken. And and one way of of then defining addiction becomes like a cycle of survival. Yes. And it's a circle that gets tighter and tighter and tighter. Oh, it does. Yeah. Versus and and every time we go through that cycle, it it's initiated through vulnerability, which is initiated through the normal hits. Let's talk about the cycle then. Let's go through the so there's a life event that happens. Yes. I'm vulnerable to life. Yeah. And and and the survival, though, like you said, is glorious in some ways because it's using how we're created, craving for life, but ultimately against ourselves. Our self protective mechanisms become self destructive because it requires that we do anything it takes to stay away from how we're created, and that's common. Our society What I thought was gonna keep me alive ends up killing you. Yes. And our society has become more and more and more common and less and less and less normal. Yeah. And therein lies our problem. And, Stephen, the more we declare ourselves as self created versus, versus, creator created, the farther away we get from normal and the more common we become. And what's what's gonna become common is we fix ourselves. What's common is we we do whatever it takes not to feel. And what people are seeing right now in our in our world, we're seeing reactivity that people who are ignorant are assuming as feelings. You're talking about in terms of COVID and the pandemic. I'm talking about COVID, pandemic. I'm talking about it's just I'm talking about last year, the year before, the year before, the year before, that that reactivity people think is responsibility. Reactions are actions we take to avoid feeling. Yes. So raging, screaming, apathy, depression, all those things are common. Shaming. And then we, numb and dumb ourselves down through addiction, tragically, to avoid reactivity.

And the reactivity is really just running from ourselves. And there's no way to escape life. Like you Samuel Beckett says you're in life and there's no cure for it. Right? Yeah. You're on earth and there's no cure for that. Everyday life happens and then we feel vulnerable to life. Yes. So every every everybody who's listening to this podcast already believes that you never stop thinking. Right? Even at night. Right? Your your brain is I don't have to wake you up in the middle of the night. Yeah. But Psalm 16 says even at night, my heart instructs me. And we know that the territory of the heart we know neuroscientifically, even the limbic the limbic world, they don't even in neuroscience, we even say that it's the feeling center. So not only do we never stop thinking, we never stop feeling. And so for every event in our life that occurs, that matters to us, that affects us, is a feeling experience. And if you're common, tragically, if you're caught up in the common, if you've sold yourself off to fit in to the common so that you can avoid the normal, because the normal's become a big minority Yeah. Right, in the Christian and non Christian world. This isn't just a Christian versus No. Non Christian. This is a Common Christian. This is a human versus inhumane Yeah. Inhuman. And so it's like an event occurs, and if you can't do the feelings related to it, then you begin to preoccupy yourself

with control. So it threatens my life event happens and it threatens my self made security Yes. Which creates anxiety. Yes. Then you go through some kind of ritual. And what Paul's talking about, the very thing I don't wanna do, run from how I'm created, how I'm made in relationship, and I don't wanna defend myself and shove people away. I really want help, but I don't trust help. So I've got a ritual I go through to, help myself, a self cure. Do you know? It it's like, well, this afternoon, I'm gonna go on a a four mile run, and that's gonna reduce my fear. They call it stress. Work. I'm gonna Yeah. Yeah. So so I I start enacting my ritual to take control. Mhmm. I then become preoccupied

with that thing that's gonna bring me back to a certain secure And vice versa. I preoccupy and do a ritual. I ritualize to preoccupy, you know. That's the thing that's gonna fix me. Whatever that path is. Cure. Yep. Right? But the self cure never lasts. No. We act out some form or fashion. We end up acting in or acting out. We end up doing the thing. If we're a little bit awake and not we do the thing we wish we wouldn't do, but we've got to do it because we can't help it. Maybe if I just talk to him or her this way, it'll work. That's like the that's the internal dialogue of every codependent. Maybe if I just try harder or am nicer or get more therapy. Yes. Maybe I just get more therapy, it will work. I'll be the kind of person that people will love. That's acting out. Maybe if I just drink more. Yes. And that I get drunk and I didn't mean to. I drink more. I mean to or the codependent who's trying to find a way to become somebody they're not even made to be. Yeah. That's acting out. So we always think of acting out as somebody that just, you know, throws an iron through a window. Oh, that's acting out. Well, acting out can be what you just described. It's a subtlety. So when that doesn't work, we end up in despair. Right? Yes. We end up we end up discouraged, despondent, sensing the darkness, contempt towards our towards ourselves, like, and and really having a sense of of shame. So Toxic shame, self contempt. And the only way out of that is to promise to do better. Which every time I think of Randy Travis is there any Travis? Promises? Promises? I don't know that. Change. Broken promises. Yes. Exactly. Swear I'll rearrange. Yes. He vowed. To reinstitute the vow. Yeah. I I I won't let that happen again. But but what we do at that point is we tend to suck up to others. We tend to promise others a change Yeah. Because we're scared of a codependency takes over. I have to please you to make sure that I'm gonna be okay with you. I belong through performing. And, see, anybody that has to perform to be loved actually resents the person they want to love them Yes. In so many ways. So we have promises, and the only way we know how to enact the promises is with willpower because we don't have emotional connection because we're we started this cycle to avoid avoid emotion. So we will ourselves to try to be better and not be affected so we will be liked and we will be successful, and we do it by being common. We join the great race off the cliff, but events keep happening, feelings keep happening, we don't know how to do them, so the cycle starts again. Now we're in Saint Paul's deal. So perhaps

I I'm starting to think. This book we wrote is pretty controversial. Because what we're saying and maybe the most controversial idea in the book is that addiction is actually common and, like, popular. Very popular. And not being addicted is actually really rare. Yes. It is. You know that, like in the very beginning of the book, you talked about Brave New World. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And the And the volume explosion. The freak in the book was a human being who had feelings. Yeah. And everybody else who was considered normal was common, was on soma. And if you're drugged out, which means do whatever you gotta do to avoid the feelings, in our culture now, you fit in. Yep. I mean, if you're removed from empathy, compassion,

creativity All come from your feet. And service to others which come from becoming fully human, identified with others, you don't fit in anymore. So this is and I'm talking about in the church and outside the church too, which is the great tragedy. It's not either or. And and we are created for relationship. Jesus said we you never leave behind how you're made. A human You're joined in how you're made with me. We're so creative that we can turn anything into a compulsive, idolatrous, addictive process. Like, we will worship anything that brings us to a place of relief and self made comfort. From feelings. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From ourselves, how we're made. This this this really So much contempt for how we're made. And then ultimately, the God who made us. We have contempt for the god who made us. And and I have been contending that. See, this is the controversy,

the the controversial focus. And I know a lot of people hear this strangely, but the moment we run from how we're created, we're also running from the God who created us. So when you lose yourself, you also lose the capacity to emotionally, relationally connect to God. So the question becomes, like Gotta get yourself back. Yeah. Well, what am I addicted to? Not am I addicted. It's like either I'm in recovery from something Yep. You know? Yep. For always and always. Yep. And then it's the next thing. Well, and the question is, what do you do not to feel? What's the thing you do consistently or compulsively not to feel? Even though you don't want to do. Yeah. What what Scarlett O'Hara thing do you do? I'll think about that tomorrow. About leaving your phone not beside your bed. Yep. And if people think that that technology is not an addiction,

the answer to that question you just asked. The anxiety of taking a phone away from the beginning. Knew it. Or the oh, they they've actually built the phones. And there there's there are, there's psychologists on the teams of video game designers to make them more addictive. See, that that's horrifying. In a way, they they give the reward systems in the games become harder and harder to achieve. They give you awards easily in the beginning. They get harder and to achieve. Take take a fourth grade, fifth grade kid who had a hard day, a hurt day, who, sees herself as her hair is not the right hair. Her skin is not the right tone. Her teeth aren't the right shape because we have an appearance addicted society. Or a a young boy who who's he said something that people laughed at or, who sees himself as not as as good as x, y, or z. He comes home from school that day, and he's in pain. And he doesn't know how to talk to his parents about, I'm I'm scared of school. I hurt at school. I'm lonely at school. They don't know how to navigate hurt because if if he tells them, they turn around and they go talk to the principal and make it something else. The principal's not doing their job. Or yeah. Or They're being that the job is being thrown out. Then the child is gaslighted and spotlighted. It's like, could so I've gotta keep this to myself. Or they say, don't worry about it. Don't let it affect you. They're jealous. In other words, they don't step into it with them and just say, life hurts. I'm so sorry. I'm sorry, and I'm with you. So and then the child has access to technology, one of these games you mentioned, and they go into that game and they disappear into that place. And that's the place they go to find solace. And you know what? Aren't there a lot of dragons in those games? Oh. I mean, isn't that something? And do you know, I was, at a a a the guy was doing a talk. He is a lawyer, doctor, and has his master's in fit in in in public health. I mean, like, the guy's been in school his whole life. Brilliant. And he talked about technology addiction and said that that that one of the highest causes of death, I believe he was talking about Korea, one of the highest causes of death in adolescence is is through computer death. Yeah. I'm like and people say, well, how does a person die from computer death? He said dehydration. That's amazing. He said, they they don't stop and drink water. They don't hydrate. And so who's leaving them in a room that long that they become dehydrated? Somebody didn't know what to do with their feelings and just sort of sent them off. So I mean, Stephen, and then the culture, the children and parents are pressured to make sure their children have a phone in the third grade or the fourth grade, which is access to the invisible dragon in every form and fashion, but the parents can't tolerate the idea that their children don't fit in or that they can't tolerate the idea that they can't find their child. Oh, yeah. You know, surf yeah. So so everything so if you don't have your phone, it's a great example. If you don't put your phone down somewhere, leave it. One day. For one day. See what happens to you. And you you will experience addiction because you will begin to experience withdrawal, or you will numb yourself by your determination not to be affected. I'm taking But then then then put your phone up two days and see what happens. I've taken, some high performance business owner guys

out on a, adventure trip this coming next weekend out in Arizona or Utah. And we take their phones. Like, we they give their phones, but it's part of the trip. We put them in a lockbox. And people talk about the first night. I felt my phone vibrating on my lap. Absolutely. Body. I have it. Body type. Their body's vibrating Yep. Telling them to get their phone. Absolutely. Right? And then the second day, they're like, well, how can they start making excuse? Well, how can I take pictures of this beautiful place? Well, we brought along professional photographers. So they're manipulating. Yeah. See, they're starting the rationalization psychology. Can I send my wife a note? Scared. Scared. I don't know what to do about my feelings. Something may have happened. And then by the fourth day, we open the box and give them their phone back. No one grabs their phone. Like, they're like, they want they're like, I found freedom from it. But then they get their phone back because we're all going home. And it slowly people start turning their phones on. We've had guys be so connected for four days. They've cried together. They've laughed together. Sometimes they even bled together. Right? They've sweated together. They've slept. Like, they've eaten. They've rejoiced. They've Mhmm. And they'll turn their phone on. So by the time we get back to the airport, they're all turned everyone's clicked off. Clicked on their word. Common. They're all they got their access back to their common. The stress cycle has begun again. Yeah. And and we don't talk about stress in the book because stress is real. But, you know, stress is

life happening like we don't want it to. And and and because we're human beings, becoming increase our tensile strength as if we're object, isn't necessarily the solution. We're human beings. So, really, the human being response to stress is to to have a little grief every day. Little little bit every day. I mean, what's the denial of the process today? Sadness, hurt, loneliness, joy? Well, one of my favorite things in the book is in the middle of the book, we have a chapter called, am I addicted? And it is a thorough self examination for someone to go through. Yeah. Not as a shaming way Oh. But as a as an x-ray Yeah. For someone or us or an MRI that someone can go through. We've got, I mean, it's questions and questions and questions and journal entries that people can can do to self assess where they are in their own freedom, where they are in their own slavery, like, where they need to let go of something, where they need to begin to ask for help and admit that they they they're locked up somewhere. Like, it's actually a really useful piece. You know? And we we we worked hard on making this, way beyond alcohol, drugs, sex, gambling,

stuff. We really do want to break this idea of finger pointing at the addict. Oh, that person is. It's really in all of us. In all of us. And until we don't have the not me, we're we're not gonna have a society that can be in fellowship or a church that can be in communion. Reconciliation will not be there. Uh-uh. Yeah. And, Stephen, you you mentioned earlier, I know this is a strange moment to speak to addiction connected to repentance. But I'm not talking about addiction and repentance. I'm talking about human beings and coming home to how we're created. It means turning from the common, turning from that which takes us away from how we're created, and coming home to how we're made, who we're made to be, whose we're made to be, and what we're made to do. It's freedom. Freedom. Like the true freedom. Yeah. Don't the way. Feeling of freedom, but actual freedom. Come home. Come home. And that invitation to come home means dropping our vows and putting down our substances, dropping our phones, you know, and start trust again, dropping our command over life and saying, I don't have control of it. It means feeling feelings, being in need, right, talking about, asking for help, ask, seek, find. Jesus said, grown ups ask so they can receive, seek so they can find a knock so the door can be opened to communion. Welcome into community. Yeah. And yet common is? And guess what? A lot of times, if we ask and don't receive in the moment, well, that was that was a waste. If we seek and don't find in the immediate second, then, well, I'm out. Yeah. So we're really spending a lot of time proving how it won't work

instead of rediscovering how it does work. And looking at ourselves and to see where we're not working. Like, we were denying our own humanity. Our own like, just the gloriousness of how we're created to be in need and to be vulnerable. And Paul described beautifully as you opened up the this chapter, this podcast, is that that he says there's freedom from this contempt, that you will always make mistakes and you will always do things you don't want to do, but you don't have to live in the contempt contempt and condemnation of of of that being your residence. You can come home to how you're created to be in relationship with the God who made you, the self you were created to be, and the people you're made to be with. We are stronger together than we'll ever be apart.

That's beautiful, sir. Thank you. Thank you. This podcast is brought to you by Sage Hill, a social impact organization. Our mission is to help people be who they're made to be so that they can do what they're made to do. Find more resources to live fully, love deeply, and lead well at sagehillresources.com.