The Map to Freedom

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

This podcast is brought to you by Sage Hill, a social impact organization. Our mission is to help people be who they're made to be so that they can do what they're made to do. Find more resources to live fully, love deeply, and lead well at sagehillresources.com. Hey. This is Stephen James, executive director of Sage Hill Counseling. Thanks for listening to the Sage Hill Live Fully podcast. I'm joined today by my good friend, Dr. Chip Dahn from chip.com. We're discussing our new book, Hope in the Age of Addiction, How to Find Freedom and Restore Your Relationships. Hey, Chip. Stephen James. Hello. Good to be with you today. Good to be with you too. Thank you. The another edition of our special podcast series Yeah. That's on chip.com and satchel counseling podcast Mhmm. Based on our new book, Hope in the Age of Addiction, How to Find Freedom and Restore Your Relationships. Yes. And, you know, the whole thing started,

even though it's it's it's astoundly, prescient, for the present. We were talking about pandemic two years ago. I've been describing the addiction cycle when I would do the numbers in treatment for guys. Guys, this is not this is a pandemic. We're living in a pandemic. This affects everyone indiscriminately. And I remember even, the health education welfare Califano, I believe, secretary for health education welfare under Carter wrote a book called High Society back in the eighties. Yeah. In the early eighties, talking about the cost. The nineteen eighties. That's back in the twentieth century. Back in the twenties back in the nineteen hundreds. But, I mean, it's amazing. It's like this this is not this is not been a big secret. And yet we've been in denial and dissociated, like we talked about in other podcasts, from its of interest. And we're doing this podcast at

kind of middle end of July twenty twenty, and news broke last week that even in the midst of the COVID pandemic, which is real, that opioid abuse has gone up this year. Opioid overdoses have gone up. Thirteen percent. Right. Right? That crisis that was around before all this is actually killing more people Yes. Than COVID. Yes. Right? Not minimizing COVID. Just saying No. The addiction problem is so much bigger Yes. Than than the global pandemic. Yep. Right? Uh-huh. And and one more one more, indication, not finger pointing at, but an indication that our problem is we don't know what to do when we're in a position of having to feel, and we don't trust that our feelings will assist us in moving towards solution. Yeah. Feelings are the enemy, and and and all of our solutions to that enemy end up creating increasing our problems. So, you know, the last several podcasts we've

been we've been doing have been defining the problem, talking about how big the problem is, laying out the origins of the problem. And we're making a turn today because our next several podcasts are gonna be about solutions to the problem. Yeah. Right? About really the ways of hope, the ways of healing, the ways of restoration, recovery Yeah. That people can move into practically Yeah. Emotionally, spiritually, philosophically, like And I gotta I've got to admit, Stephen, that it's difficult for me to leave the problem even in these podcasts Yeah. Because, sometimes I feel like I've got a little tin drum, and I'm beating it as loudly as I can. You know, like that monkey that sits it just hits the airway. The monkey. That's what I thought. But but I I I picture you knew the monkey suit would have right now. And I'm hesitating to row away from the Titanic Yeah. Because I've spent my career row rowing towards it, doing with others for others what it was done for me. And so I want you to know as we move to the solution, which is I have great hope in it, I know that at this moment, we are leaving thousands and thousands of people behind Mhmm. Who are not gonna leave the Titanic. They're gonna keep moving deck chairs around. And then they're gonna threaten people to try to. Yeah. Like the caterpillar I talked about? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I want you to know that as we depart, and I want you to know that as in everyone who gets into recovery, especially family members who are leaving behind another person who would not take the solution, I want you to know that your grief even leaving behind your addiction, your grief is real. The departure is real. You're not committing evil, you're actually doing what God's called you to do, you're you're called to live and live fully, and you can't force or make people give up something that they will not

let go of. Yeah. Well, the metaphor you often use and we've adopted it for the book is that addiction's the pill. Like, it's the easy relief. But what we really need is a path. Yeah. Right? So we're Yeah. There's there's a path away from addiction towards freedom. Yeah. And so we talk about there's a path, not a pill. Yeah. You know? And Life that's that. And to me, that's the answer to life itself. Now that doesn't disparage. I'm not disparaging people who properly need appropriate medication for the struggles that they're experiencing. So this isn't about, oh, if you're on a pill, you're bad. This is that life, whether you have a pill or not, life has a path in it, and there's not a pill that's gonna solve our problem. Let me read this. Okay.

Step into so maybe some more detail. No one this is from the book. No one has to stay in the slavery of addiction. A path to freedom from the never ending addiction cycle of survival exists. Sadly, many will hear about this path but avoid it because entering it has a cost, and the cost is admitting our needs and becoming vulnerable. The way out of the bondage of addiction is a beautiful irony. Through defeat, we find our liberation. Through our weakness, we can be healed. And through our dependence, we find our truest identity. Yeah. We face a fork in the road, continue to enslave ourselves in an existence that will destroy us, or live fully in a world we cannot control that can hurt us, but where can we can be saved because we are connected to relationship with ourselves, others, and god. And that,

is even as you read that, that's a great joy. But I also picture as we started the podcast, I'm sitting in the lifeboat, and the oars are lifted, And I'm watching from a distance the the tumult and the the foam and the fire of a ship sinking. And on some level, all I've got is grief related to that hope. Do you know, and sadness related to my freedom? It's like, my god. And yet we we're called to live truthfully. And, honestly, it's insanity to sit in a fire because somebody else won't come out of it. And our willingness to sit in the fire is our own Yes. Fear of our own pain. Yeah. So that that experience I'm having is is is is toxic shame. I should be able, I ought to be able, which is a codependency thing. No. You And it's not guilt. No. And at the same time, will I dare to go ahead and let go of the toxic shame and have the sadness of facing what I cannot do that others may not choose to do.

Well, in the book, we we put in, a paradigm or an illustration that you came up with years ago called the map to freedom. Yeah. Right? And Mhmm. And it describes a process that we take that are these kind of 12 steps. It's real. Yeah. But but it's not a linear process. It's like a zig zag up and forth back. It's like a, you know, hiking. Every time we go hiking in Appalachia, they'll hold the cut back. Yeah. Switch backs and We can see straight across, but Yeah. You're you're going out with these guys. I mean, if y'all do hiking, there is not a a a crow flying. We don't fly. We walk. Yes. In the map to freedom that we that we actually have in the book, we we talk about these steps we take. Right? That Yeah. In these certain categories, that move us from enslavement of addiction to the freedom of recovery. Yes. Right? And return us back to kinda rebirth us back to who we were made to be. Yes. And

believe it or not, even sets up as we step into it what we call fourth dimensional living. Yeah. Do you live beyond space and time? It's not just And to live beyond your own self. You're becoming a maximum service in the world. Yes. You get recovery or you get saved so that you can give back. It's not so that you can just have more for yourself. It's so that you can have the fulfillment of what it means to be fully alive, which is a maximum service. You know, creating to show people, look. Look. Look. Look. Take this. Get this. Take this. Move this. Shape this. Let's go. So the the first in the in the kind of map to freedom on this path, this because the map to freedom tells you how to walk the path. Yeah. It says it says the the map of freedom starts out with one line. And people can get posters of this too. Yeah. Yeah. They're posters. It says yeah. It says, get you Right. Which means return to how you're made, become you, step into the process of learning from others what it is to be human, and then give you, which means speak up about what's happening inside of you. And then you do that by cut back. Okay? You cut back. So now you gotta start on it. Cut back below it. You do that by feeling your feelings, The Voice of the Heart, needs of the heart, feelings. Tell the truth about those feelings, step two, and give it to the process. And we say, god owns the process. In other words, there's a a path, a way a life works. Our job is to give ourselves to it. And then cut back. So now you've got give you and then you've got, passion. What? No. You got you got give you and then you got trust the process. Oh, yeah. And then what happens is that opens a person up to passion, a willingness to be in pain for something that matters more than the pain called living. I tolerate my feelings instead of relief. Resilient invulnerability.

It's like, this matters to me. People talk about resilience, but they talk they don't actually talk about resilience as the ability to tolerate feelings. Right. That's resilience. Endurance. I really mean endurance. Right? So passion is awakened, and it's for the purpose of we found relationship beats everything, and we love living like a mother is passionate about a child so they can have intimacy. So passion leads us to intimacy, Intimacy, fully in relationship as we're created. And that intimacy, we value relationships so much that we become people of integrity. Which means we're integrated. We keep our word. We're integrated. The head and heart is connected. Connected. Yeah. We're congruent. And then by that integrity, we come to, gosh, living fully, loving deeply, and leading well. So as we do these cutbacks, we're growing from giving ourselves, trust in the process, walking in integrity, and guess what people follow? People follow heart. So leading well means being a person of heart who has the authority, the capacity to say, I desire good for you, and I'm gonna do what it takes to get that good to you if you'll take it. In other words, we start giving back. We give back what we were given. Maya Angelou said, one of my favorite quotes. This is not an exact quote. This is kind of a take on her quote. It's people

will will seldom remember what you said, but they'll always remember how you made them feel. Yes. Right? Yes. Whereas I love and, you know, you and you just stated and she stated, neuroscientifically, the frontal lobe, if we face how we're really made, is always asking, is it safe, So that we can ask the real question, do you care? So these these these and these 12 steps, which aren't Movements. There's 12 movements. The path of life. The path of life. Returning to life. Like, are always about, like, being me so I can be with others, so I can give myself away more fully. It's not about just me, me, me. It's about me because other people need help. Other people need love. Other people but I can't give what I don't have. Yes. And and so in the whole the whole spiritual root system

become portable sanctuaries. Mhmm. But you can't remain a portable sanctuary unless you're refilling what has been drained out. So nobody ever leaves behind being human and a student, but we're all created to become teachers as students. Yeah. I mean, to to give what we've been given. So nobody's above share out of our overflow. Yes. And nobody's above anyone, but some of us are farther out than other ones. I mean, so and we're just coming back to tell it. I mean, it's like we've talked so many times, Stephen, that that the four realities of life, I don't think they make the book or do they? I can't remember. I bet they're in here. I think they're I think they they I know they made the parenting book, but because I'm gonna repeat them until I time. They're all in the parenting book. But but we all have to remain clumsy. Life is a struggle of embarrassment and willing to be embarrassed. We all have to live life on life's terms. We don't own it. You know, Copernicus and God. Things will be disappointed. Yeah. We have to to deal with powerlessness. We everything's practice. I mean, we're we're always practicing living. We're we're works in progress from now till we're done. And then finally, it takes a lifetime to learn how to live. That's reality, and and I don't know anybody that likes it, including I. I don't like it. I don't like it. But it requires that you gotta feel feelings to live in the context of reality. You can't avoid what it takes to live.

And so And when we try to, we end up in addiction. Yes. So the better we are at being human, the greater our lives can be because we end up having to live relationally. God, ourselves, and others. And all those happen in a process at the same time and separate. It's so it's so paradoxical. It is, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. But recovery requires to step into that map of freedom. There are five movements that we have to step into to have to really get into them. Right? Yeah. So so we know that recovery requires number one, admission that I have a problem. And even when you use that reference from from Romans seven, Paul said, I got a problem. I've got a problem. In the book, we call these the five tools. Yes. The five tools. Yeah. And and I've got a problem, and Paul answers the problem in Romans eight one. He says he said there's no condemnation for those of us who are in Jesus. I have to admit I have a problem. Yes. Admission is the beginning. Admission is the admission. Admission is the admission. Admission is the admission into exactly go to the hospital. And then number two, just admitting is, like, is just a con unless you move to the next step of freedom. Absonance. I gotta stop doing it. Yeah. Absonance. And nobody does abstinence without help. Nobody does abstinence without help. No. Because you're going to go through withdrawal, and you're gonna have the experience of something that you've used this is what addiction was about, stopping withdrawal, stopping pain, stopping difficulty. So abstinence requires help. And if you are on and and and there is no shame in in needing help, but you'll be ashamed of needing it. And

you will part of recovery, learning to not be ashamed of your neediness. And abstinence means you gotta have somebody watching you. Otherwise, you're gonna you otherwise, you're gonna find your way back to the pig slop. I mean, you can wash a pig, and as soon as the pig's washed, it goes and finds the mud. So absence requires a period of time for withdrawals to end. And yeah. So it helps helps us after we move through withdrawals, like, physically, abstinence helps us create new neuropathways. Yeah. And you can't yeah. You can will yourself through abstinence. It can be done. White knuckling is what it's called in the recovery world. But then if you do dare to let yourself have abstinence, that you you admit there's a problem and you give yourselves to abstinence nobody surrenders to it, but you give yourself to it. The next movement is surrender. So admission, abstinence, surrender. And surrender means turns out I do have a heart, I do have a problem, I do have needs, and I give myself over to others who can give myself back. Yeah. Return render over. I give myself back to the God who made me, like, there's gotta be something greater than me. And they call it higher power in the 12 steps. I call it God because it is. So I give myself to how I'm created and the one who created me. I render over. Because what happens is I when you know, we talked about earlier in our podcast that as soon as I get rid of me, I've gotten rid of God. I when as soon as I run from the Imago Dei, I'm running from the one who who made me. Mhmm. So really, when I give myself up, I'm really returning my I'm returning what I stole

back to to who who made me. So Well, in in surrender too and addiction recovery is not a one time thing. It's a daily experience. It's even more than daily. It's a it's a multiple time a day. And it's a it in the beginning, it's not that I believe in God. It's just that I can't believe in me anymore. Right. Okay. So Yeah. It's I I I'm not I'm not the answer. Exactly. So it's really rendering over to the fact that I'm not the answer answer and there are there are answers and I'm gonna give myself to those answers. Yeah. And then the the fourth movement is and these are daily and sometimes minute to minute. They were always playing them all up and down, is acceptance, which means that life has a certain way of working and I'm not in control of it, and my job is to grieve it and find solace and be okay in the midst of it, which is we're very capable of doing, but that requires fellowship with God and others. See, this thing's relational. It's back to relational. And then finally, the fifth movement, that's the 12 steps, is struggle, which means being able to live in pain and live in joy. We call it, being able to live between one and ten, able to grieve and able to celebrate and everything in between. I love that we call these tools because,

like, each one of these tools, like, we use almost for different things sometimes. Right? Like Yeah. If you just use surrender when in times of struggle, like, you're actually never gonna grow. Yes. You're never gonna develop new maturity, new capacity, new wisdom, new insight. And so kinda part of recovery, you know, addiction recovery is whether it's recovery from codependency, recovery from drugs and alcohol, or sex addiction, or work addiction, or exercise addiction, or technology addiction, is learning, like, how to use each tool to help me and help others that I'm connected to. Right? And not every tool works the same. Nope. But you gotta use all five tools. Yes. You gotta have all five tools. We we literally grow into living those five experiences. Daily moment by moment. Admissions. Now you're trying to build a house with just a hammer. And you you don't have a saw. You don't have nails. You just Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's so beautiful. So daily life's what what puts us on the path and then what keeps us on the path of those five things. So let's go over them again. Abs admission admission admits us. I love that. Yeah. And and you you said it earlier, blessed are the poor in spirit for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. That's the beginning of the beatitudes that that's admission. I can't do this. I I'm done in. Admission is the entry ticket. Yes. And then abstinence, which means withdrawal from whatever it was. And and even if those people listen, you got an idea of withdrawal when you think about leaving your phone at home. I mean, just that little opens us up to, like, if I'm like, in codependency addiction, if I'm

not gonna make this person feel better, right, to make myself feel better, I have no clue what to do. Yeah. And sometimes it's just, like, not doing something is all I can do. Yes. Like, letting them have the freedom of their own feelings. Yes. Right? Not trying to read their mind or control their mood or Yeah. Like And you know while you're on that, you know, I can see, you know, when we say just leave your phone at home, and I can see somebody looking at us going, why would I do that? I'm just gonna worry. Something could happen. So if you try to be rational about recovery, but, you know, why get recovery? Why stop drinking? Because of what it's costing you, because of the impact on others. Like, well, you know, sorry. I mean, there's no reason. This is gonna sound crazy. There's no why to stop, but there's what am I missing by not Yeah. Or what am I losing, And what's the impact on me? And what kind of life am I missing? Yeah. Those are the real questions. Why

why get recovery? Because even even the sickest addicts, people who are so sick in it still have moments of clarity where they go, there's more to life than this. Yes. There's more to life than this. Yes. And there is more to life than this. Yes. There is. Yeah. And if you ever do tangle with a person, giving them reason to recover, you give them reason to not recover. Come on over here and feel the pain. Come on over here and struggle. Come on over here. But really, it's like it's like you have to face your enslaved before freedom becomes enticing. I tried it my way. It didn't work. So maybe I'll try it your way now. Yes. That's that's really Because I'm sick and tired. Yeah. Because I have a desire or a need to find something different than what's before me. Yeah. You know? That's real important. But those you said it beautiful, those five things. Now, you know, life is sometimes slow and sometimes fast. Just because we get recovery, doesn't mean your life suddenly became exuberant. Certainly means it does. And just because you meet Jesus doesn't mean you're happy for the rest of your life? No. Right? So so this is this is about learning how to face the craving within you as it was created to be fulfilled. That's what recovery is. Yeah. Like that daily facing the craving to live. Yes. That's never gonna be completed. And I don't like the idea of something owning me versus me giving myself to something I choose. You know? And the freedom to choose. Yep. The power to choose. Thanks, Chip. Yeah. Thank you, Stephen.

This podcast is brought to you by Sage Hill, a social impact organization. Our mission is to help people be who they're made to be so that they can do what they're made to do. Find more resources to live fully, love deeply, and lead well at sagehillresources.com.