Creativity - Part 1

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

This podcast is brought to you by Sage Hill, a social impact organization. Our mission is to help people be who they're made to be so that they can do what they're made to do. Find more resources to live fully, love deeply, and lead well at sagehillresources.com. Hi. This is Stephen James with the Sage Hill Live Fully podcast. Thank you so much for joining us us today. I'm excited about our podcast. It's a little different. I have sister brother duo, Becca Wertz and Matt Wertz. Both are creative people. Becca is a visual artist and graphic designer based here in Nashville, and Matt is a really talented singer and songwriter who's had a long career creating music. I wanted to have some creative people on because it seems to me right now with all the stress and anxiety and, challenges we're facing in the world that creativity we've put to the back burner. And, really, creativity needs to be something that we remember we're made for. We're actually here to create good and beauty and kindness in the world. And so I wanted to have two of the most creative people I know, but also, two of the most honest and and process people that I that I get to know in this in this world and, have them on and have a just a candid fluid conversation about creativity and the importance of it in our lives. So sit back and enjoy this conversation with Becca Wertz and Matt Wertz. Hey, guys. Hey, Stephen. Hello. Welcome to the Sage Hill Live Fully podcast.

Thanks. Thanks for having us. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad to be here. So glad to have you all with me today for this conversation. And what's fun is is, like, I get to work with Becca almost every day. Like, we're working in some of the same stuff every day around how to create beauty to invite people to struggle. And so this is a weird turning of the tables because, in my head, Matt is Becca's brother, which Yeah. Might not be how people typically know y'all. Right. The reason I wanted to have y'all on is I've I've seen you both, one up close, one from a distance, evolve, continually evolve as creative people. And to have two people from the same family from, like, a Midwestern, like, work a day family, And these two creative people have emerged. Like, we shouldn't have creative people from the Midwest.

I know. Yeah. It it that's I think that a lot. But then I go back home, like, there's some cool stuff happening in Kansas City. Like, I'm always surprised by it. Kansas City is cool. It's cool. Yeah. It's come it's coming it's like coming into its own. It's fun. Yeah. But so I wanted to because I've from even going way back to see you, Matt perform, like, maybe, I would say twenty years ago almost with Al Andrews took me to a show where you were just, like, it was it was, it's the Heartbreaker album, like that album, whatever album that was. Yeah. Was it at Belmont? No. It was at some club down here. Okay. And like this young big haired kid, full of life, full of energy. Now you're a middle aged dude. Yep. Right? Who's about to get married. Who's which is crazy. I know. Yeah. Which Tell me about. The whole world just stopped. Alright. It's like shout out to Brad Barnes and Matt Wertz. Yeah. It's like, first it was Todd Previs, then it was Brad. Now she's like, what the what happened? Yeah. Well, hey, you're out of work now. I'm out of work now. And then to see Becca, when I first met her, she was not willing to do, like, website work at all. I don't do website. It's like, well, let's but to see you evolve into as a graphic artist even more into, like, like, exploring your own creativity in deeper ways. Like, I wanted to have y'all sit down for conversation because over the last several months, our world, because it's been consumed with anxiety and despair, I think is being starved for creativity. And I think people need to hear from creatives right now for two reasons. One, I think y'all might be feeling the burden of the world differently than other people, and, we need to be encouraged to create right now more than anything to bring hope and light into the world. And so that's why I wanted to have you all here. Cool. But, why did you want why did you accept the invitation to come talk? Like, I ask you first. But why did y'all accept the invitation to come come do this?

Well, I did because, I I think there's, like, so much to be said about identifying with, your own identity as a creative person and not just because you're an artist for a living, but, like, because we're made in the image of a creator, I believe that everybody is creative. Mhmm. And I've been on this journey, and honestly, I think it was kind of highlighted because of quarantine and, the world shutting down that I've been, like, having to face a lot of things in myself as as work got slow, as things got quiet, then, like, the voices in my own head got louder. Mhmm. And I had to choose, like, what am I gonna do with all this that's coming up? What were they saying? You hear voices? Is that Well, they were saying when my work was slowing down that, like, my value is attached to, like, what I what I create and what the the jobs I can get. And so as as my income was slowing down, I had to think, okay, what do I what do I have? What skills? What resources do I have? And what are some ways that I can make something meaningful, that will connect with people and also help me pay my bills. So, pivot, the word pivot has become quite a, important theme, I think, in the past several months. And, like, as I kind of have followed those leanings and, like, trusted the risk that it took, like, I'm finding more and more, like, inspiration and, like, trails that I didn't realize I didn't realize I was interested in. Mhmm. So, I I think that I wanted to come and, like, share about that in hopes of, like, giving hope to people that might

need to hear that right now. Couldn't even put into words what you just said. Like, there's some people I think are feeling what you said and couldn't even put it into language. Yeah. What about you, Matt? Like, what are the besides Becca asking? I mean, honestly, that was why I said yes. I I mean, like Becca Becca asking me to, do this. I'm like, yeah. That I'd love to do that, you know. I don't my experience with it's funny. Like, my creativity, I feel I feel like there is this, when COVID hit for me, honestly, it's a lot like you, Becca. Like, there was this feeling of I felt this expect I felt I put this expectation on myself of like, especially when quarantine, those those couple weeks where it's like, you can't do anything. It's like, if I'm not writing now, if I'm not writing music now, am I even a writer? Like, if you, if you don't if I'm not taking advantage of I have a back house that I built that is beautiful. And a lot of times, it's, rented out to Airbnb. The short They're not doing that right now. They're not doing that. So I have I have the space available to me to work out of every day. I have nothing, to do. And just this, like, this, this expectation of, like, well, I mean, are you gonna write or what? And I was like, no. That's that voice inside your I'm not gonna write. Like, I, and I had to give myself permission to just, like, to not to just, like, catch up to, like, okay. This is this is an odd time. And, it's okay if you if you don't write right now. And at a certain point, I started like I saw all my friends on, on Instagram doing different things. Taking advantage of the fact that everyone is on their phones, you know, and like talking to people and finding creative ways to, connect with their audience. And, so then came this wave of like, oh, shoot. I gotta do I gotta come up with something to do there. And, and then I had to let that go. And then when I did, I got an email from a a woman asking me to send if I would send a video, a little video voice, a video message to one of her friend. I think it was her birthday and just wanted to, like, wish her a happy birthday and, you know, in this weird time. And and at first, I was annoyed.

I was like, I don't wanna do that. I got my own problems, babe. Come on. Yeah. I don't know. This is a problem. Know you. And then and then, like, I got hit with inspiration. Like, this is this could be a thing. Yeah. Like, people are separated right now and, and like, may and and also are in need of, some people are like really need encouragement. So I I invited people to, like, have me send a video message to somebody. And I just gave them my email address. I said, You can you can pay me whatever you want or nothing at all. But I'm doing this, for the next few days. Like, just and it was such a gift. I needed something to do. Like, it helped me. Like, it gave me some purpose to wake up for. Yeah. It connected me with with people and people's stories. I got to hear about like people's situations that were like way more dire than mine. And then I also got this gift of like and they and hearing why I was an important like, why me? Like, why they were Why it would matter that I sent something? And so it was like and I ended up getting paid. I made money. Yeah. Like like I like I probably and and it was like this thing that ended up being such a gift. I'm like To everybody. To everybody. And I was like, this is, like, the biggest win ever. But I still haven't written a song since March. You know? But I but I have done things like that. I've been, like, very creative, but I'm not writing any music right now. And I'm just I've just grown to, like, accept that, like, my I I really appreciate and enjoy getting to, like, have the room to kind of, like, give my creative energy to different things. Yeah. And I've just gotten like, right now, it's being directed

in some other ways. Yeah. So I'm aware as I'm talking to you both, I have an extrovert and an introvert sitting across from me. Matt's the extrovert, Becca's the introvert. Is that fair? Is that Fair. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. I consider myself an extroverted introvert. And I consider myself an extroverted introvert. Do you? Oh, I'm so introverted. It took me forty something years to recognize that I actually draw my energy from solitude and reflection. Mhmm. But I'm so compulsively creative and engaging that I thought, like, that's more compulsion and habit and addiction than it is actually me. Yeah. When I look back at my past, I spent a lot of time riding my bike by myself, riding motorcycle by myself, playing by myself, drawing by myself, like all this stuff. Yeah. Right? And then as I gained skill and I have some pretty good people skills. And I get I get validated for my people skills, not my contemplation. Sure. Of course. Right? So you so you, like, keep going to that well. Yeah. And it wears me out. Yeah. Right? I'm learning, like, where to draw my energy from for me. Mhmm. And I actually have something deeper to give people, more authentic to give people, you know. Yeah. But y'all are both really different and enough about me. This is about y'all.

Good job, Matt. Turn the tables on you. Did I do that? Like, what's it like, Becca, being, like, more introverted and, needing social connection, obviously. Right? But really, like, it takes you a time to even, like, voice things sometimes or even kinda know things. Mhmm. And I my experience of Matt is, like, it's more like he'll jump in and try things in a different way and learn through trying and you kinda learn through you're almost like the last to see how great you are sometimes. Is that fair? Yeah. That's probably fair. Yeah. And and I'll say this, and I'll probably go back and say an introduction too is, like, if you've seen anything beautiful through the Sage Hill world, it's because Becca had her hand on it. Mhmm. You know? And, It's really cool. It is really cool. So what's that like? Like

Well, I think I I guess I've known this about myself for a while, but I think, like, in the past year or so, I'm, like, really embracing the fact that I am a slow person. And I kinda need an on ramp to, to really latch onto an idea or try something new. And I'm certainly, like, I feel like I am, I'm okay to take risks, but, I think I need, like, the momentum and, like, know that I'm supported when I am gonna take a risk. So yeah. But I think, I know that I need, like, the space to kinda process something on my own. And even in part of what I've been doing over the past, several months is going through this book, The Artist's Way. And it's been so helpful. It was

written by Julia Cameron. Which we just did an Instagram live on that. You and I just did that. Yeah. And, it's been like the introduction, she's making these bold statements about how it's like changing people's lives. And I'm like, what? Like, I'm like the skeptic. I'm like, are you sure? Like, I don't know about this. And so but I I connected enough with what she was saying that I'm like, I wanna try this. And so I was supposed to be in Paris this past spring, for a creative sabbatical, and my plan was to go through this book on my own while I was there. COVID happened, trip got canceled, and, you know, here I am in Nashville, Tennessee, and I find myself still wanting to do this book and then found some girls that wanted to go through it with me. And it's honestly been the biggest gift to have people to do it with. Mhmm. It's like a safe place to voice dreams and ideas and not be judged or, criticized for, how, like, wild it might seem. Mhmm.

And so There's even a rumor that you might be facilitating an artist's way group at St. Jill. You know, I'm definitely into that. I I really believe in, like, the power of these groups and I I hope more people can experience that. I believe in letting you come to that decision on your own. That's amazing. Yeah. So yeah, the the one of the tasks you do every day is like write three pages of just like what's in your brain. And, you know, it's so different from journaling because it's just like you're not judging it. You're just putting it down the paper. Which is even that's an exercise. Like Oh, yeah. I'm gonna write without judgment of what I'm thinking. Yeah. Just write it out. It's hard. It's hard.

So I mean, I think that alone, like, giving myself time to, like, you know, a, get out of my head what's in there because I'm that's probably the biggest block I have in creating is just overthinking things and, like, analyzing all the, like, possible outcomes Mhmm. Instead of just, like, letting myself letting myself try it. Mhmm. And letting myself, like, get messy and fail and, you know, then try again. Yeah. So What about you as the extrovert, Matt? Like how like, as I noted like even that answer was this slow like, water running through time. Yeah. Like you did like Oh, that's beautiful. It's the mandering bat. Yeah. Like a yeah. Yeah. So so so gentle. So what the question is, what's it like as an ex like I don't know. I I well, there's a question of an observation. Like, I noticed there's these both these creative siblings grew up in the same family, really different personalities. Yeah. One seems to be slower, figures out things internally and then need support and encouragement to move forward. The other, you being more entrepreneurial risk taking, you know, like, oh, here's an idea. I'll Just do it. Yeah.

There's certainly, like, some, like, I I I have, you know, I've certainly wrestle with fear. You know, I think I'm probably the most afraid when, you were when I'm working on like, honestly, the scariest thing is to, like, write music and put out albums. That's super scary. It's so scary. So scary. And it's so laden with like expectation. And the last time I did, last every I mean, I I forget. I I've heard people equate it to, like, and I can't relate to this, but like childbirth. It's like this painful process. And and like, while you're in the middle of it, you're like, why did we ever why did I ever want to do this? And and then a few months later, or your time passes. And oftentimes, you're like, I want to do that again. And I need to do that. I need to do that again. And, that is, my my experience with making albums, making music.

Have you ever made music that or an album? I'm sure you've made music, but, like, really poured yourself into an album. And you're like, I love this. This is really good. And then it went like, like, the other side of the expectations. Like, hey, this isn't like Matt Ward's music or this isn't what I wanted it to be. Have I ever have I have I ever I mean, have have I ever not expect I think I think as soon as I I was fortunate enough to have some early, you know, successes that allowed me to do this full time. So, I mean, I never was like, I've never been a household name. I've never like You are in my household. Well, wait. So it's I I have I have Many a family road trip have been rocked out. That's awesome. I love that. Yeah. Well, the it's it's spotty at best, you know, that but it's fun because I like to meet, you know, whenever it does come that someone, recognizes me or knows my music, I love it because I like people and I I enjoy talking to new people. So, so that part of it, from the relating back to the extroverted thing, and here's another way that that correlates is that I really like working and being creative with people. Yeah. So writing songs together. I just wanna make stuff with

people. Like, let's make stuff Sending birthday messages. Like, if I'm left by myself to create, I'm frozen. But if you need to sing a birthday song to you, I got that. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. It's and and and even in my like, you know, like, I I it's excruciating for me to go and be by myself in a room for six hours and write a song. And sometimes it's like, hey. It's excruciating because you, like, need to do that. And I think, honestly, that's probably what I need to do next. That's probably, like, the next thing I need to do. But, it's, it's way more fun to do some some of it is just because it's the thing gets done. It's done quicker. Yeah. It gets done. And it's fun if you're working with people you like, You know? And I found that, like, there's something you know, there's there's plus and minuses about both things. I mean, you can like, musically, I can get a little, I'm limited in my my musical abilities are limited. I know only so many chords. I have certain, certain canyons have been dug over time that are like where I go. And it's fun to collaborate with somebody who's may just have different canyons, you know, different ways the water runs. And I like, when I am with that, it sparks something in me and I'm like, Oh, I get to do this now. I get to write a melody that I wouldn't have normally gotten to write because I'm I'm playing GCD, you know, in the same way that I always have. Yeah. And so that is really fun for me. And I love mixing it up. And so it's always, the extroverted part of me, like, making writing music with people is just a total blast. The different, like, art direction stuff I've gotten to do, over the years outside of music has been really fun too. And I love I love working with people and Helping their vision be even better than what they imagined, but truer to what they imagined. Built like build it out. And a lot of what I've done I love doing art direction actually, don't I? He loves it. No. It's it's great. And you get to, like, and and I feel that way. I feel like I've been an art director with my music, because I'm not the producer. I'm not the guy doing the graphic design or taking the photographs, but I am, like, the guy usually who knows has some opinions about the way things go. You've got a vision. I've got a vision. Sometimes it takes the ball or the the boulder to get rolling down the hill first for me to be like, to know where Yeah. That thing should go. Yeah. But,

it's really fun. That's dialogic. Right? Like, you can't create it out of your own. You have to see the thing moving for you to know how to coordinate with the creativity. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. That I I think that's probably how I can best answer that question, the extroverted question. So a version of what I'm hearing y'all say that I knew, but I'm knowing deeper right now is that, like, I've gotta be loyal to how I'm made as I move through my life and created my life. Right? So if I'm it's like, oh, yeah. That's true. And it's like feels really true right now because I'm sitting across some different people. Even how you're looking at me right now, like, Becca, your face is like you're deeply listening and your brows got the little furrow in it. And then Matt's face is, like, really open. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fun. And it's like, god, it's so cool. Like, having these, like, a different experiences, together. I'm gonna throw out two words, and I want you to all respond. I think you're gonna know what I mean. Tennis shoes and home decoration. Go.

Yeah. So I just moved into an apartment. It's the first time I've lived alone in my thirty four years and Which is so brave. Yeah. I didn't realize how, like, scary it was until I'm like, oh, okay. Like, this is this is the decision I'm making and, you know, it's And being slower, like, thirty four years is like right on time. Mhmm. You know? Mhmm. Yeah. I knew it was time. It's like it kinda just took some some of it building to be like, okay, it's time. But I realized I had never had an entire space to do whatever I wanted to with. I've had a room, a bed, you know, a bed never the full thing. Like, it's always been, like, you know, sharing with roommates. Like, we're sharing furniture and, like, sharing styles. And a lot of the times, it did kind of go together, but it's like you never I've never not had to, like, check with somebody like, hey. Is this okay if I put this here? Are these colors okay with you? And so it's the first time I've had this, like, blank slate to, like, create. It's almost felt like a a painting of sorts that I get to, like, try something and I leave it there and I see if I like it and then I come back and make adjustments and, I'm just having the best time. And it's like I had to stop myself because I was so excited to get it all done. But then I was feeling overwhelmed because there's so many decisions when you're filling a space for the first time, you know, buying furniture. And, and I had to tell myself, you don't have to have all figured out right now.

It's okay to let it be slow. I love how much y'all talk to yourselves. I told myself this. I told this part this. This part said this. It's wonderful. That's the voices. We all have them. But most people won't admit to having them, but we all have them. Did did you I'm wondering, because I felt this and I wonder if if it's a real thing. Did you feel like a stigma or like, that like it's not okay to live by yourself? Or like it's preferable to live with people? From like, even from like a, like, Christian or, like, socially, like you know what I mean? Yeah. I think for a time, it was like, oh, you you know, you live with people so you have accountability.

You're not gonna bring some guy back to your you don't have, like, free reign and just like, like, have slumber parties with, like That doesn't stop people. Yeah. Yeah. Just telling you. I know. Yeah. Well, and even like in in thoughts of like, you know, wanting to be married. I'm like, well, if I live on my own, am I gonna be so selfish that like, I won't be able to allow someone in or like accommodate. You'll end up with like a lot of pets. Yeah. Totally. I will not be the cat. Yeah. Which will make things harder. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Or you'll have to marry a cat lover. Please, no. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good question. Like, so you the internal resistance about, like, moving towards what you knew you needed.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think I know that I'm somebody that, like, needs social, you know, interaction, support. And so my fear was probably if I live alone, am I gonna get that need met? Right. But I think I know myself well enough now that it's like, if I like, yes, it's okay to be lonely at points. But, like, if it gets to the point that I really need somebody, like, I'm gonna call. Yeah. And I'm gonna have someone over. Yeah. Or I'm gonna go sit on someone else's couch. Yeah. Trusting yourself enough to, like, know that you can get your needs met. You're not just gonna, like, hole up and shut yourself off to the world for so long that it's like you're at the point of no return or something. It's like you're not gonna do that. Yeah. I always like, I think I probably, could have made a decision to live on my own about, I mean, like, probably five or six years ago was, like, a point where I was, like honestly, when Brad moved out Yes. It became, like, just excruciating to think about, like, starting new with somebody and, like, just not having the energy for that. I realize we're not talking about creativity right now, but Yeah. We are. It it's, but but I was I own a home and was, like, kind of it it just was, like, I from a financial standpoint, I was, like, I kinda need the rental income. You know? So in a way, I'm, like, really excited, although I don't know totally where the income where the deficiency where the money is gonna come from. But like, I'm excited to like get to live with my wife, with Annie. And like, not have I mean, I have a roommate but it's like, it'll be a different thing. Yeah. And you get to you'll get to, like, create the space together. Yep. Yep. And we'll get to use it. Like, it I it just felt like, and I actually, like, have like, I love the guys that I live with. Like, it's not has nothing to do with, like it's it's 100% just about, like, man, I just feel like I've outgrown a season, you know? Yeah. It's like it's like a pair of pair of shoes that don't fit anymore. Yeah.

Hey. Thanks for listening to the Sage Hill podcast. This is Stephen James. If you do want to sign up for the Artist Way class that, Becca's gonna be hosting through Sage Hill beginning in January, love for you to do that. You can go to Sage Hill.co or sagehillcounseling.com or check out one of our social media feeds and, find information on about it there. We're really excited about, her willingness and graciousness to help facilitate that for us. It's a great chance for you to start in the new year with kind of a creative rebirth and creative exploration, and you don't have to be a person who identifies yourself as an artist to begin to develop and nurture your creativity. It will pay off in all areas of your life. So go check that out. Thanks for listening, and, remember that you can live fully. We're here to help.

This podcast is brought to you by Sage Hill, a social impact organization. Our mission is to help people be who they're made to be so that they can do what they're made to do. Find more resources to live fully, love deeply, and lead well at sagehillresources.com.