Hope & Expectation, Grief & Gratitude in the New Year

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

This podcast is brought to you by Sage Hill, a social impact organization. Our mission is to help people be who they're made to be so that they can do what they're made to do. Find more resources to live fully, love deeply, and lead well at sagehillresources.com. Hey, everybody. This is Stephen, Sage Hill Counseling Nashville. So glad to be back with you. It's been a little bit of a hiatus from the podcast. We, took some time off for the winter, rest, and renew, and celebrate the holidays, and, hunker down, and COVID up, and all the stuff that people are doing these days. And we're we're back at it. Like, today, I've got, my good friend Phil Herndon from St. Joe Murphysboro. Today, we're gonna have a conversation about New Year,

new things, and the more things change, the more things stay the same. Hey, Phil. Hey, Stephen. Stephen James said we're we hunkered down and and we did COVID up. You know exactly what we did. You are both COVID survivors. Yes. We both did both of those. We hunkered down, and we COVID it up. What do you think, man? What was it like for you? What was the COVID like for you? Man, you know, I I got some stuff uncovered, of course, about just how much anxiety I have around just the normal things in life, like losing smell and taste. I had this rip roaring fever and chills and body aches. It didn't bother me at all. Not tasting or smelling, like, take two of my senses away. It was horrible. Like, I I just kinda went a little bit crazy. Like, man. So what it uncovered was how, a, what, you know, sensate people we are. Like, we're people of senses, and we're made that way. And, what would you take two of those away? It it really, I guess, for lack of a better term, like, played with my head. Like, I was scared to death.

What do you miss tasting the most? First question. Second question is, what do you miss smelling the most, and are they different? Third question is, what are you really glad you can't smell right now? Oh, jeez. Fourth question is what what does your taste buds not miss? What I miss smell tasting is just good old fashioned breakfast food. Eggs Like, sausage, bacon. Bacon. Sausage. Waffles, man. Buckwheat waffles, honey, blueberries, bananas, like, all that great breakfast stuff. I'm a breakfast guy. So I mistasting that. Here's something that's really strange. Like, I missed smelling Christmas, like cinnamon, candles, trees, like, being outside. And I'm you know, you know, I'm a big hiker and being out in the woods. I couldn't smell. You know? I I miss smelling just the thing normal things of life. You know? Well, normal things of life around Christmas. My taste buds do not miss stuff I eat to stay healthy like broccoli. Broccoli is okay, but I don't miss it at all. I don't miss it. George Bush don't like broccoli. Yeah. I don't I eat it because I need to, but I don't I don't I don't sit I don't wake up in the morning and go, man, if only I could taste broccoli.

Does broccoli have a taste? It tastes like dirty dishwater to me. What broccoli tastes like. Yeah. I don't I don't miss that at all. And, what I'm not smelling, probably is, not smelling my nasty workout t shirt when I get off my brand spanking well, kinda sorta new Peloton bike. Alright. What's your Peloton name so we could I could follow you on Peloton? Man, I am so boring. My name is, of all things, Phil Herndon. Okay. Alright. I'll I'm james e six one five. Okay. I'll look at you. I'll I'll follow you. I got I have two each other. I have two followers. I'm pretty famous in Peloton. Oh, man. I think for me, being also a COVID survivor, you know Oh, yeah. Debatably a two time COVID survivor. It's debatable.

Yeah. I see. But, for sure once, I I didn't lose smell or taste. Thank goodness. Because I think I would have freaked out with that. I think for me, it was the the coming the long haul coming back. It took me weeks to get back feeling I mean, weeks, like, probably two, three months to get back to feeling wholly myself from that. I I'm convinced there's a neurological component to COVID. Like, it gets our our neuro neurological system is affected in a way that other viruses haven't. But that's just my lab and therapy approach to it. I'm not a infectious disease doctor, immunologist, or, it was hard. Well, Phil, we we've turned the page on 2020. Man. And 2021 is gonna be incredible. Isn't it, Stephen?

It's just I've got so much b s hope about this year. And, we got a new president, we got a new Congress, we got a new year and it ain't I've been hearing on all the social media and every ad. If I see another ad on TV that says we know what you've been through, I'm so tired of these ads trying to use empathy to sell crap to me. That really bothers me. But there's all this hope that people saying goodbye to twenty twenty. And I woke up a few few days ago, a couple weeks ago now, and it wouldn't be different. Yeah. I I looked at my watch today and went, my my Apple Watch is January 5, and I thought I'd be five days deep into this incredible new world.

It feels the same. It feels the same. It it is the same. Yes. And so what I want us to spend a few minutes talking about today, the hope we bring to the new year, what's that about? Is that some of the hope we bring to Christmas too? Right? It's the hope we bring to newness. What I wanna go and talk about expectations and demands. What's the difference? You know? Because we know a lot of people try to lower their expect lower their expectations a lot, which end up becoming demands. Right? You know? We'll talk about that. I wanna talk about the cadets between grief and sorrow and gratitude. K? And I wanna talk about desire and powerlessness. So we got a lot to cover. Wow. Yeah. We better get rolling.

But in in my weird head, those are all connected. Yeah. They yeah. Your head is weird, and they're connected, I think. So yeah. So I heard a lot of people, and I had a little bit of it too myself in not a bad way, but just a lot of hope that this year might be different than the last. Mhmm. And last year was really hard for a lot of people. A lot of good happened last year too, and it's a really hard year with COVID and and economic instability. I know a lot of people are out of work. I know, you know, just a lot of challenges that people are going through. A lot of people I know in recovery have relapsed. A lot of people who didn't struggle with addiction are now in the throes of it. Yes. You know? It's it's it was a really, really difficult year. So I think a lot of us had this have an anticipation, that when the sun came up on January 1, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, or the twenty something or the sixteenth or whatever's that special day is, all of a sudden, things are gonna be better. And the more things change, the more they stay the same in some ways. Right? But what do you think let's talk about the hope that we have in that because I recognize it's the same hope that we have coming into Christmas. Right? Like, this darkest time in the world, this hope that the lights could enter the world and change things, you know, the whole advent story. And what what's your take on that, like, on the hope that we carry around?

Yeah. You know, I grew up in a home to where the worst thing the worst thing could happen is you could have hope. I grew up with a man who who really was sold out to resignation. And and I I don't I don't say that to dishonor my dad on a podcast by any means, but I I really did grow up in an environment just almost like a dome over my home that, like, hey, son. The worst thing you could ever do is to hope. Like, if you hope, you're you're guaranteeing yourself grief, which is in fact correct. To hope is to guarantee myself grief. And we just lost every listener on the podcast. That's awesome. Yeah. If you hope, you're guaranteeing yourself grief. I believe that.

It it really true. But you know what? The story is in our humanness, and Chip has talked about it, written about it, we've taught it for years. You know? What's true though is I'm a human and you're a human and every listener in this podcast is a human, and we cannot help it. Like, I wake up, you know, we're all kinda like, you know, piglet in some ways. Like, I wake up in the morning and go, well, you know, who knows? This thing may work out today. It you know? But then I grew up in a home that said, don't even have those thoughts. Wake up in the morning protecting yourself from any and all vulnerability. And one of the most vulnerable things we can do is hope.

As we're laying it out there and saying, I am looking for life. Like, not just answers. I'm looking for life here today. And the good, good life. I'm not looking for just another mediocre day. I want bacon and eggs and granola, blueberries, and buckwheat waffles. And I wanna taste it all. I wanna I wanna suck it into my very being through my pores. You know? It's amazing, Stephen, what you're talking about though is, like, hey. I look forward to breakfast. Well, okay. I can go downstairs and eat breakfast and, you know, you and I share a love of coffee. I can I can drink coffee, but I'm just I may as well be eating broccoli and kale and drinking water now because I can't taste it? That's a great point. Like, my So do you wake up in the morning and go, like, maybe today's the day I can taste it.

Yes. Yeah. That's what I was thinking about when you said that. Like, yes. I wake in the morning and go, I might taste all I'm that cup of coffee may go down like the millions of them have before because I have hope. But when when children grow up in homes to where they're they're living under this resignation dome, hope doesn't get paired with just, okay. I'm hopeful, but I know I'm gonna grieve. Hope gets paired with despair. And so hope and despair become the same thing, and I grew up with that for years and years. Like, if for me to have any hope of anything was immediate despair because, quote, unquote, I know it isn't gonna happen. And yet hope and so would be, like,

life without the possibility of reconciliation, renewal, redemption. You know, it's really a fundamental belief that life will not get better. And, therefore, I'm going to absolutely put a lid on, any hope. And if if if there's any if there's any such thing as what really makes us human, it's hope. Like, you know, we humans wake up, and I hope all these things we've been talking about. That's really a human thing. So we have to put away an awful lot of identity in order to not hope. And in fact, you know, we we can't help hoping anyway. We just put a lid on it. So I was driving down the interstate right before Christmas, and I passed this billboard and it had two numbers on it. 356000412. And I drove to the gas station and I got two lottery I got six 12 lottery tickets, six from Powerball, six for Moneyball. Uh-huh. For money I'm not really sure what it's called. Multi Millions or Mega Millions or something. Right? And then I got the kids each, I got everybody in the family a scratch off card. Now I don't play, ever play the lottery, right? And I put the scratch off card in everybody's stocking, which is such, this is such a terrible story.

Hey. Did you write a parenting book, Stephen? Oh, I've written several books. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All about how to live. Yeah. I'm I'm a self help book expert. And so I'm great at writing self help books that don't sell. I'm wonderfully good at that. So, but I I so I gave them scratch off cards. Of course, nobody won anything. We did win a free ticket. We could get a out of six cards, we get a free ticket to go gamble again. Right? And then I laid the on the counter, I laid the lottery tickets with the six numbers. I got I've got 30, six I got 12 numbers of lottery tickets. Right? One for each person in my family. Thinking, alright. I've I've put enough juju and magic over this thing, you know, that certainly we're gonna hit. Out of both those cards, k, guess how many numbers I got right? Please don't say zero. One number. It's worse than zero because because the zero, I could go into resignation. No one ever wins this. Oh, yeah. One number in my crazy brain said, well, maybe if I play it again Yeah. Then I'll get the millions. And you know what I would do with the millions? I'd give most of it away. Of course. Of course. I would just have set aside enough for me and my family Sure. And my grandchildren, my great grandchildren. But I would give the rest away to do, like, the church or something after. I don't know. Of course you will. And I recognize in see, do I have resignation? The reason I'm telling the story is I recognize, like, on the other side of that, my hope, right, is this fantasy world. So I got I'm thinking I got resignation on one side, and I've got my fantasy of how I'm gonna escape life on the other

side. Yeah. And that those feel connected to me. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Yes. They are because we're so both of those territories take us away from feelings. Resignation insulates me from feelings as does fantasy. And so and, again, we kinda land in the same spot. Like, between the two of those is hope, which guarantees some form of grief and some form of fear. Like, I hope it may not happen. I'm afraid. I hope and it's not actually gonna happen to the extent I want it to happen probably, so I'm gonna have some level of grief. Yeah. So let's let's then move on down. So hope put into the real life world leads me to greed, but it also leads me to a sense of expectation. Yeah. Right? So hope is this internal belief, knowing, deep deep abiding in that things are gonna get better. And in re and reality hits me that they might, but they're not gonna be what I dreamed them to be. Uh-huh. Right? So so when I put that into practical temporal living, like day to day living, my hope becomes an expectation. Right? So talk a second about expectation, what expectations are, and how we can't get away from them, and how they're not bad, and all that stuff. Right. So, you know,

I'm I'm a card carrying member of AA for a long time, and, you know, the big book says we don't we don't have expectation. And, that that's been the that's some unfortunate language. That's been the ruination of a a being alcoholic. I'll be one of them. But, you know, expectation has has become I'll use the word paired again. The word expectation has become paired again with the word demand, and they're different. You know, you and I had an expectation. We had said agreed. Hey. We're gonna we're gonna start this podcast at four on Tuesday afternoon. So I had an expectation you would be here. It's like, that's not unreasonable. That's not wrong. And, you know, but that that's a different thing than demand. So I I have all kinds of expectations of people that I love. Fidelity to keep my confidences, to to honor my life, to tell me the truth, to confront me, and to challenge me and give me feedback. Those are x I expect you and other people that I love to do that, and, you expect me to do that with you. And that's an expectation. And, certainly, the the gospel is full of, Jesus saying, well, yes. I expect you to do this. If you're going to call yourself something, I do expect you will live in a certain way. That gets all twisted up. It gets twisted up with legalism and all that stuff. But, you know, with that word expectation is very human as well because as you pointed out, it's so connected to hope. Mhmm. You know, I have expectation that I'm gonna come in here to say till every day, and I'm gonna sit across from people. I'm gonna listen intently, and I'm gonna bring myself to them, and they do the same with me. That's the expectation I have as a therapist that I'm going to I'm gonna do with them what I'm asking them to do with me.

I would I would imagine too something about the light switch. I have an expectation that the light switch is gonna turn on when I flip the switch. Mhmm. Right? Yeah. That ends up coming in faith because it's come on in the past. My expectation in the future is it's gonna come on again. Yes. Right? I would imagine I know this is true for me, and I know it's true for you, that also because of heartache, betrayal, woundedness stuff that I also have, like, false expectations about how people are gonna act. False predictions About the way people act or about the character of who god is. Yes. You know, that god doesn't live up to what I expect god to do for me. Yes. And and we have this uncanny way, Stephen. You've seen it. You've seen it in the mirror. I've seen the mirror. You've seen it with thousands of people you sat across from, as have I. That that toxic shame cycle makes sure that things that inevitably go wrong become a self fulfilling prophecy. Like, you know, yeah. Yeah. It's not gonna go the way I want it to or the way I planned or the way I even set it up. And when it doesn't, inevitably, on some level, it doesn't, that then when I'm living in toxic shame, another way to get away from feelings, I it that ends up saying, told you. I told I walk in the room, I flip the light switch, and the light bulb pops out. I go, that's what I get for turning on the switch. I knew that. Yeah.

So one way we deal with expectations is we lower them. We try to we try to disengage from our heart. We try to numb ourselves. We try to, bargain to ourselves to to the basement. You know? Like, I don't I don't deserve much. I call that depression era mindset. You know, like, live on resignation, don't get your hopes up Mhmm. Like, all that stuff. And it's that there's a way to defend our hearts from the pain of life, right, and around hope. You see, lowered expectations. But the expectations keep coming back. And then talk about then how those expectations become demands then when they're not met. You know, an expectation kinda circling back a little bit. You know, expectation, make sure because it's related to hope, and that make sure on some level, we'll grieve. Like, Chip Chip writes about longings. You know? We we know when we have a long longing for home, for instance, it's not gonna be the perfect home I truly desire on the earth, and so I'm gonna grieve that it's not that or justice or rest, for instance. And so in the same way, I have an expectation, and on some level, it's not gonna be what I'd hoped it would be many times. And so what can happen is in my raging, which is, you know, fear, I get afraid. Uh-oh. I'm afraid that it's not gonna be I wanted it to be. They're not gonna do what I wanted them to do. This is not gonna turn out the way I wanted it to turn out. I can that self fulfilling prophecy becomes a demand that I do not have to grieve. I demand it happened a certain way. And when it does not happen that certain way, I rage with God, I rage with my friends, I rage with my wife, I rage with whomever, and I demand that I don't ever have to grieve again. And that's what the big book and other places are talking about. You know, don't get your expectations. They're talking about is, please have your expectations, which is embedded in your hope. But when it inevitably isn't to the level you had desired, it's not okay to demand that someone undo it so it'll be right again.

So it can't be undone. And it it can't be undone. Right? So having demands that, I've never thought this, but really is a commitment to live anchored to my past hurts. Right? Think about it. Yeah. Go ahead. Think about it in your own life and mine and people that we know and people we've You think about your own life. I'll think about my life about that. Oh, sorry. Hey. More projection. I can't help it. I knew you're gonna say that. We're not friends anyway. And have that escalated quickly. You know, you you just think about how how many people you sat across from that that have lived saying, this is behind me, and I swear about it is never gonna happen again. And so I swear it never happens again back here becomes a demand that you live with me in a certain way to guarantee this doesn't happen again.

And the world the world has to operate in a certain way to guarantee. Yes. Yeah. So I end up living with a grudge or rage. I mean, I noticed for me lately, I've had a lot of feelings around, unmet expectations in customer service. Like, I it's I have been very, like, I have an expectation. I'm paying good money for something. You're gonna deliver what I'm paying for in a way that you said you're gonna deliver. And when you don't, I need to tell you about it. Right. It it's it clearly is about grief for me. Like, clearly about something bigger than, the guy at the hamburger joint delivered my hamburgers thirty five minutes later that he said he was gonna do the other day. You know? Yes. And it's like, I just want somebody to do what they say they're gonna do and follow through with what they who they said they were gonna be. You know? Yeah. And the more I enter into how I overreact to cuss unmet customer service expectations and my demand that these people, on some level, cater to me, the more I recognize my grief around, real significant relationships and events that really didn't live up to what they needed to lived up up to. You know? My continued grief around those over and over again, you know, especially during the holidays, like, keeps me grounded, sober, humble, connected, available. When I don't grieve, man, my fuse is short. My, my, judgment is quick, you know, and my temper is big. Right? Like, it's

so sad. You know, I I went home for lunch today, and, Sheila, she said, well, do you want me to make some pour some more of that chili or, like, breakfast for lunch or something? And because I want to taste and smell again, I just snapped her head off. Like like, it's gonna matter? Why don't you just boil some water? Like, she's like, well, hey, cowboy. Wait a minute. I didn't take your smell. I don't have it. You know, it was so what you're saying. You know, my I'm her customer. Now you make sure what you cook, I can taste now. You understand? Yeah. And that's so unreasonable, but I have you mentioned it earlier. Like, I woke up this morning really hoping, having an expectation I would taste food today. And when I didn't, I demanded that she that you know, I don't care what you do, Sheila. Whatever you put in front of me, you make sure I can taste it. Because the demand's crazy. It doesn't make sense. But I was demanding that.

Yeah. It only makes sense on an emotional and spiritual level, not on a cognitive level. Right. It's like your Yeah. Absolute frozen grief. I'm powerless over it. I've been googling, like, how to make your smell come back when you have COVID. I told them my Google searches this week. What what is it? Like, that's the only Google search in the world that gets zero returns. There's nobody to make smell come back. No hits. It it literally says nothing. I mean, you could smell a lemon and do smell training and that you can almost see the eye roll in the article. Like, okay. It can help you feel better. So we're I'm waiting for, you know, for for our act to get together on the platform. I'm I'm I'm I'm slamming lavender up my nose because it's in this desk drawer here, demanding that I'll be able to smell before the podcast starts. Didn't work.

Oh, I just hope that things are gonna get back to some sense of normalcy. Yes. I I Whatever that is. I took the lid off this lavender thing and went, maybe I can smell this. Oh. It's the same thing with, you know, 2020. Like, hey. Tomorrow's January 1. Like you said, we have new stuff, a new president, new administration, new this and new that, and new understandings. And and, it's January 5, and I I still can't smell or taste. I've been my justice streak in me, my my Enneagram ateness, my desire to set things right, my profit sense, like, my sense to, like, just tell people the way it is and call people back the way they're made to be, has been very annoyed about two things. One is the use of, like, the phrase, get back to normal. Like, it's like, oh, no. No. No. We're not ever going back. Mhmm. You know? And with wherever we end up, it ain't gonna be the ever the way it was. No. Right? And then there's also this false belief that some system, administrative power, be it an, religious institution, a governmental institution. Like, there's some institution that if that's just set right, then my life is gonna work out the way I wanted it to be. Yeah. You know? And I'm hearing these things of, like, we get back to normal or when these certain people are either reelected or elected or this person runs this thing or if the church would just fix this way or this AA meeting was run by this person or like, you know, like, if we just had the right people in charge, then, my life would be okay. My hope would be fulfilled. Mhmm. You know? Yeah. So those two things have been really irking me about people's denial, and their and our lust, our human understandable lust to have somebody deliver me from my human condition.

And there's so there's this phrase, you know, limbic regulation that you know, limbic thrown around a lot today, but it's just that idea that we we literally are regulated emotionally by looking at one another's faces. Yeah. And, that's what's so healing about sitting across from someone, whether it's sitting with your therapist or sitting with a friend at Panera Bread or wherever they get coffee, there's something about just having a conversation to say, thanks for the mask. Nice effect. Wish people could see that. And, you know, like, sitting across them saying, you know, not much I gotta tell you, not much has changed for me. Like, I'm glad about this or glad about that 2021 or whatever. And just there's just some of that other face nodding and going, yeah. Not really me either. I hope it does. Like, I hope this is better days, but then I'm I'm kinda I'm kinda with you there Yeah. Rather than the, you know, wait now. Hey. We got a brand new day coming, and, it it's just so it's so wonderful to be able to live in what is and to have true gladness and joy when it really does work out well sometimes. Sure. That that passage, you can tell me where it's from

because you you finished seminary. I dropped out. So, or trade change degrees. Hope deferred makes the heart sick. Sick. Yes. Proverbs. Yeah. The long fulfilled is the tree of life. Right? Yes. That idea of, like, putting off my hope, deferring it into to the future. I'll be happy when Yeah. Right? Like, I'll be I'll be, whole when I'll be connected, grounded, secure when these things happen. Those are those are other forms of expectation demand instead of the ability to go. And we know this is and this is the core of the spiritual root system is moving into feelings and needs, specifically grief, sadness, is the doorway to acceptance. It really is. You know? And, I think especially with the new year, this Yeah. Podcast 2021. I think if there's any message that that we humans need to hear, it it it it is that one. Like, we go to great lengths to not feel. And when I do feel, I don't like it a lot. But I do also know that at the end of the day, literally at the end of the day, before bed, when I have allowed myself, I guess you could say it that way, to tell the truth and to hear the truth and to lament and accept that many things didn't turn out the way they wish they did, that is a doorway to a thing called gratitude that is so important. Now you mentioned that on the list earlier, it's like, you know, it's one thing to try my best to have gratitude at the end of the day, but if I have lived well in the lament of what didn't happen that my expectations and hope desired, then that gratitude floats to the top and I go, you know, I didn't I didn't get to spend the time with so and so. I wanted to today. But I'm really and I'm really grateful we're friends.

Mhmm. For instance. Like So the question I I think I wanna talk about then to kinda end our time together. I don't know if I wanna answer it, but I do think it's the question that I think might help us live more intentionally and purposely is in what do I place my hope? Mhmm. Like, am I placing it Is all this beautiful, big, like, giant, deep, soulful, like, eternal thing in me called hope? Am I placing it in the things that can hold it? Or am I am I unjustly asking things to that can't hold it to hold it? Yeah. You know? Yeah. That's like, you know, what you're describing, Stephen, is, again, very familiar with those of us in recovery. What you're describing is if I place it in something that is I'm wanting to hold on to it for me, then that's like taking Novocaine and wanting it to last for a year. Like, I'm gonna take Novocaine on January 1, and I want it to wear off on December 31. The just that one dose. And so it it's not made to last. Those things are not made to last, and that too is part of the embedded grief. As, you know, gladness and joy and sadness. Like, it's not by nature of the days going forward and how they how the world operates. If I am placing my hope in something that is circumstantial and it gets me away from feelings, it it it may be anesthesia, but it is temporary anesthesia. And I'll pray. I went on a walk today with Heather this morning,

in a in a maze, like, not like one of those spiritual mazes at a retreat, but like a corn maze kind of place. But it wasn't corn. It's like wheatgrass or something. And, and we got lost a few times. Like, we did the easy maze. There's, like, a easy maze to the right, and we did that. You know? And, and then we're just talking and walking. It was it was cold. It was, like, you know, 40 degrees. Wind was blowing. It was so good to be lost in the maze and held by the earth Yeah. And be with my wife. You know? And I had no idea I was gonna bump into that today. Like, I had and we were outside of a we were outside of an appointment with that is involving us that was things weren't great about and a lot of sadness and grief and guilt and anxiety kind of around this time. And the best part of my day was nothing I hoped for, planned for, expected, and it still happened for me. And I got this hour with my wife and the cold, which I love because I got those Irish roots. I said, oh, this is like this is like the homeland, Heather. This is like a spring wind. But yeah. And we walked around with a cold blow and talking and and then we did the hard maze and got really lost, you know. And we'll just walk out backwards because we couldn't find our way out. And it was so sweet. Yeah. You know? And it really really felt like God to me. And it felt like that, part of my job is to show up with my hope, but it's not my job to fulfill my hope. My job every day, like, my part of the relationship with God and with others is to show up with my hope. And if I do that, there's actually a pretty good chance that my hope will be fulfilled. If I don't defer my hope, I'll get some of my hope to fill fulfilled. But if I move into resignation or fantasy, it's it ain't gonna happen. No. I won't find the small beautiful things when they come. I won't I won't,

yeah, No no prosperity when it happens. Right? That's right. You'll be anesthetized to all that's the danger. You'll be anesthetized to all of it, not just bad stuff. So I guess our benediction for people is, welcome to the new year. Have your hope. Be disappointed. Make sure you're putting your hope in good things, and find gratitude at the end of every day. Man, great summary. I was just listening to you, Phil. I'm making notes as you talk. It's really good. Oh, that's fun. Hey. Thanks, man. Enjoyed it. Hey. This is Stephen James. Good. Thanks again for listening to the Sage Hill podcast. And if you're interested in more of what Sage Hill's offering, you can go to Sage Hill.co or sagehillcounseling.com. We've got offices in Nashville and Brentwood and Murfreesboro, Tennessee. But we also do virtual coaching with people all over the world actually right now and, really using this time to connect with people that are in need. And so we're here if you need us. We're here to help is our tagline. And if you wanna know more about the spiritual root system and its teachings, you can go to chip.com or sagehillcounseling.com or Sage Hill.co. Find out more about that. And if you're looking for hope, Chip and I wrote a new book recently. It came out end of last year called Hope in the Age of Addiction, and it's really apropos right now. It's a book of encouragement and and truth, and we just you could check that out on Amazon. So thanks for listening.

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