Man Up vs Show Up

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

You're listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dodd. Sage Hill is a social impact organization that helps people see who they are made to be so they can do what they are made to do. In this podcast, Chip sits down with his longtime friend, Stephen James, to debunk the man up myth, and instead invite men to the more courageous calling of showing up. They also explore the reality that showing up requires a willingness to risk life and limb in order to find the life and love they were made to have. Chip, there's all kinds of, little phrases and colloquialisms and motivational little phrases that they're going around. You gotta pull yourself up by your bootstraps. You gotta be tough as nails. Another one you hear is it's time to man up. Yeah. Time to man up. Yeah. You know, which is a very shaming remark, by the way, but but it's trying to say something. Yeah. I've heard you talk about you gotta man up, you gotta show up. There's a difference between the two. Yes. And you know what? And I tell you, they both have some relevance.

Man up is extraordinarily abused and insecure men have one category of living when life becomes threatening and it's they gotta man up. And man up means pull yourself up by your bootstraps. It's time to get it done. Try harder. It doesn't mean what you feel and there's a place for that. A place that a man needs to man up is a place called war. And when it's when And you're not speaking necessarily metaphorically. You're not war. I mean I mean, like, war. And I'm not talking about on the athletic field or the Right. Against anything. I'm talking about That it doesn't matter what you feel. What does matter that you care about what you're doing it for. I mean, you're fighting for beliefs or not. What we're gonna talk about in terms of show up, you're fighting for family and an extension of family which means perhaps country, but you're fighting against that which would destroy you if you don't stand up and man up, which means risk life and limb for something that matters more than life and limb. And it's horrifying And it really does mean kinda almost overcoming being human so you can do things that we think of as inhumane. So the last thing, however, that a family needs is someone who mans up at home, pulls themselves up by the bootstraps at home and tries to teach everybody that same thing because that man is a man who brings war to the house, to the home. And see, a family, a friends, a daily life, unless we're at war, you don't man up, you show up. And showing up is an extraordinary thing because there's war in showing up, but but it's a different kind of war. A man who's made to show up is fighting, for something that matters to him greatly, but the way you fight it is through a war of love. A man is made to bring light, vulnerability, openness, struggle Courage. Courage, full full hearted participation, passion, a willingness to be in pain for something that matters more than pain. He brings that to the darkness, meaning that children who don't know how to live life, a spouse who is it has needs as he does, friends Friend in need. Yeah. Right. People that show up at work and can trust integrity to this person. So they bring light to darkness. They bring creativity to destruction. I remember a very well known president literally, spoke I heard it recently, had spoken about after the the shuttle carnage. He said that we will continue to bring create light into darkness and creativity in the midst of destruction. And this show up is is a person who can who can present the beliefs of possibilities and sees destruction and continues to struggle with believing that something good can come of even something horrible, like a heartbreak for a child or a loss of a friend. This person will show up and stay in it emotionally and spiritually. War of love, light into darkness, creativity into destruction, hope and despair.

And so this person It just hit me that so much of the PTSD and the depression from soldiers coming home from war is because they had to go do something literally had to go do something without their heart. What yeah. Going to war, you can't take heart. Well, you you do take heart, but not but it has you have to shut down and and kinda show up. But but the the man up part is the mistake in it. Now that you've manned up, it's done. You gotta show up and grieve for having to be inhumane. Yeah. You know? I mean, it it war is inhumane even though it may be just or Yes. Or It's it's it goes against, our great deepest longings. You know? Yeah. Because war was there is evil in this life, and we must combat evil. And we must stop evil.

Meaning the combating of evil does damage to the good. Yes. Yes. Yes. Evil does damage to the good. But when a when a man mans up at home and sort of shows up, he's participating. Or mans up at work. Or mans up at work. Or mans up at work. To places there's not a need for war. Hey. I remember Sonya, years ago, but had terrible, terrible headache. Walked out of the closet. She was getting changing clothes. She walked out of the closet. She had to go somewhere. She didn't need to go. Terrible headache. She said, I have such a terrible headache. And I actually said to her, hey. The whole world has a headache. That's what man up looks like. That's what man you're such a lover. Yeah. Yeah. I thought I'm helping her understand. Man up. How are you? Hey, guess what? Nobody's caring about me. Let's get to it. Nobody cares about you, which means me too. The whole world has a headache. Yeah. And she cried. And I'm like, oh, god. Well, yeah. Good for her. And I didn't know how to show up in her tears. I I thought, well, golly. She's so this is gonna tell you. It's a long term project. How arrogant I was and how She's a long term project. Right. And how self pitying I was Mhmm. That, you know, nobody cares about me. Guess what? Let's say how the world works. See, that's how sick I was. Yeah. So I didn't know how to show up. I just knew that there was a man up, and you'll never man up enough. There's always gonna be somebody else who can feel less than someone else, not care more than someone else, not respond more than someone else, be more psychopathic than someone else. And I'm not saying manning up a psychopathic, everybody. I'm saying that when the world that a man uses his manhood to hide showing up, it moves towards great and extraordinary loss, we're made to continue to take the risk of hoping in the midst of that. And the only way a a man or woman can continue to hope and bring light and creativity is if they're drawing off of a passion and a and others help and a trust and a faith. So in other words, trust and faith and hope, Stephen, are all about dependency. They're all about neediness. You don't become faithful and hopeful and courageous, which is full heart participate. You don't have passion unless unless there's someone there feeding because courage is limited. It has to be encouraged to be kept, you know. Mhmm. And then finally, a man who shows up will have courage, frankly, in the face of death. In other words, I resolved years ago and I have not had to experience this. But the worst thing, to get happen in my life is something to happen, honestly, not to me, but to, the people I love. Especially your kids. Well, frankly, yes. And, on some level, or Sonya. And, on some levels inside me, if something happened to Sonya except when I wanted to, like, later in life when we're so old, like, I can't even remember. But if something happened to her, I don't know if I wanna live. Yeah. And and then I remember our sons. And it's like, well, like, they need my heart and I need theirs too. And and so it was like, okay, I'm in a place of no courage and I'm facing death who will encourage me and they will help me keep my heart in participation in this life until whatever happens to me. So a man who shows up is frankly a warrior. A warrior is a person a war of love. A warrior is a person who's who who fights because of what's behind him, worth dying for, worth giving himself to, and what a family and friends need, spouses need is the heart of the person. They need somebody around who knows what it's like to hurt. Like for science, I have such a terrible headache. It's like, I'm I'm really sorry. I know it hurts. And what what what can I do to help? Or what do you need from me? Can I do go do this for you? Or, you know, extend ourselves. So showing up is showing up in the war of love. Manning up is when it's not about love, then you you you kind of dispense with the vulnerability and get on with getting it done. Mhmm. And there is a place for both.

This is Stephen James, the executive director of Sage Hill Counseling. Thanks for listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dodd. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, anxiety, depression, or burnout, please reach out to the Center for Professional Excellence for help. For more than twenty years, CPE's long term residential treatment programs have been helping professional men recover their lives, marriages, and families. To find out more, visit cpenashville.com. Further, if you're a therapist, a pastor, or a professional that works with people and you'd like to be better equipped to help them live fully, we invite you to learn more about Sage Hill training, an in-depth experiential training to help you bring your heart to the work you're called to do. You can visit Sage Hill Training to register.