Hope, Part 3: Living With What Is

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

You're listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dodd. Sage Hill is a social impact organization that helps people see who they are made to be so they can do what they are made to do. The following podcast was recorded at last year's Sage Hill training, an in-depth experiential training to help you bring your heart to the work you are called to do. If you are a therapist, pastor, or professional that works with people and you'd like to be better equipped to help people live fully, we invite you to learn more about Sage Hill Training. You can visit sagehilltraining.com to find out more. Hope exposes the conflict. The conflict is that life is tragic and God is faithful. When you and I are born, we are born believing that life will work. Now we're not we don't have the words life will work. We're born reaching out for life without anything to stop us from doing it. We are sure. We are certain of the hope we have. We're sure of our hope and certain about what we do not see. Sounds like faith. Remember I said months ago, you're born with faith, you're born with courage, you're born working. Hands, head, and heart all in. Full participation with your courage, and you believe. You're certain. There's no question. These people here are gonna hold me, take care of me, grow me, make me, and they're gonna take me places. I don't even know where it is yet, but I'm gonna be glad we went. Solomon calls that humans were born with eternity in their hearts. But God knows the end from the beginning and not us. Well, that's kind of a piss poor deal. You got eternity in your heart, but you can't know anything about it except to have it. That means it's gonna produce anything for you. Okay? That's not such a good deal. It's like a curse. I love, I believe, I want, I desire, and yet I can't control it, the outcomes of the beginnings from the endings. So these children, the Hebrew child, human beings are born believing that God is faithful, that life will work. Now remember, I said in the Hebrew world, the word truth meant God is faithful. God is faithful. In the Greek world, God's a speculation. The truth is speculative. In the Hebrew world, it is alive. So if God is faithful, it makes sense that how I'm born would work like I'm born for it to work. I live in eternity. Hope is alive. Needs get met and desire, tears can be wiped away and I don't have to have them again. Things can get fixed. But the Hebrews wound up in a world where they said, okay, God is faithful. That's the truth. But reality is real different from the truth. Life is tragic. God is faithful. Life is tragic. We got ourselves a problem here. And it turns into all kinds of systems and theories and ideas and perceptions, qualifications. Like, hey, you know, if you're good, life won't be tragic. Or, hey, you best would just give up to hell with God and just just live the tragedy. Take everything you can, carpe diem until it's over. Go get it. Go get yours. You know, take what you can. I mean, what whatever. It turns into thousands of things. But that conflict is what is the is what hope disturbs. Hope is the, precursor to make how life works a conflict. Because we're hoping that it's not gonna be the way it is. Struggle is the thing that reconciles these two things. And hope is the agent that won't go away, that you gotta surrender to to face that that's how you're gonna live. Now, the moment you hope, the first feeling we will almost always have is fear. Hope is wishing for something you don't have. Right? And even imagining through that hope something you're after. And so the moment, if you've experienced any tragedy of life, and then if you've experienced having to hide that you experienced life as tragic, like I did at the table, I acted like it didn't happen. Then as soon as you have hope, you have fear, because life is officially out of your control. You're wanting something you're not sure you can get. It's scary. Take you're gonna have fear if you have hope. Healthy fear or it could be the anxiousness related to fear. Fear takes you to what it's made to take you to or away from what it's made to take you to. Right? Fear takes you to anxiety or to asking for help. Beautiful. That's beautiful. Hope's there to take you to the tools of living well because the moment you hope, you have fear. And if you have ex anticipate the disappointment that Joe mentioned or the hurt that somebody else mentioned, then you may be afraid of hoping, angry at hoping, removed from it, contemptuous towards it, try to suppress it, rationalize around it. Hey. Don't get your hopes up too much. Just take what you can get. You see? Like the old farmer say, god, I know I'm just an old farmer. I've told you that before. I'm just old farmer out here. This dry, busted up land, can't ever grow anything on it, on the hillside, this old farm. God, I don't wanna bother you because I know you're spending time down the valley with all those rich farmers and everything. And but, you know, if you could pass along a cloud or two, corn patch, that'd be a good thing. You know, that's a contempt towards hope. You get it? That's a hatred of God and playing the game of martyring humility. Oh, God. I don't wanna bother you. I know you're busy. And the hatred of my farm and the jealousy and resentment. The guy's controlled by his unwillingness to hope, unwillingness to feel. So the tools, fear takes me takes Todd to what do I need to do for this to happen? And it's beautiful. Beautiful. Okay. Now you understand that hope continues to bring us to the tools of living well. Just use Todd's example. Todd says, I'm I'm scared so and when I get scared, scared is a need for help. Do you understand? People who are afraid could anticipate I'm not gonna get what I'm looking for. So what do I need to do to get what I'm looking for? And this can apply in addiction too. What I need to do to get what I'm looking for? Something to make my pain go away. But let's say, he's talking about, like, what do I need to do to get this deal? So he says, hey, let me call Junior. Let me call Tim. Let me call Sarah. And say, hey, Sarah. Do you know this person? Hey, could you could make a contact for me? He's asking for help. He's considering options. He's looking at consequences. He's anticipating practicing results. He's looking at possibilities. And so he his fear translates into getting his needs met. He imagines like he seeks guidance. It's one of the needs. In his desire to go after that which he's really looking for, wishing for a world where he can do what he can in a world where never nothing's ever gonna be perfect, but he can certainly get everything he can to make life better. If I make this deal, these people can move in this building, and then I can sell it, and then I get a profit. They get what they're looking for. My mission is to help people find where they're made to go and the properties they're made to go to because Todd's in real estate. I get a super big bonus. We're all happy. I feel good about how I'm doing it. I feel good about the blessing I get from the profit from it. And man, hey, let's go do this again. Got it? So hope is the thing that keeps bringing us back to the tools of living well in a place that's always gonna be conflictual, where no matter what you do, it's gonna be tragic. As Beckett, Endgame, he said that you're on earth and there's no cure for it. Basically, you're stuck here and you can't get out of it. You can simply get on the train to run from it. Or you can jump off the train and head for the ship and trust the process. Out of your addiction into your life. Away from your defenses, as much as you can, awaken to living out of the unconscious, which is out of the heart, so to speak. Now how many of you accept that anxiety and depression is a part of your life? K. It's hard, isn't it? Isn't it? Well, I'll we'll show you tomorrow that it is a part of all of your lives, whether you admit it or not. And it's normal and natural to the life we have to live. So if you're anxious, it's okay. But see, we're raised in a world now, if you're anxious, you've got a badness. If you've got depressive thoughts or depressed, you're you're bad. Right? It's like, my goodness. It's like addiction is the only relief from those two things. Really? If you really don't ever wanna have anxiety or depression, get enough drugs. And you won't have it, except when they you look over and it my stockpile's running out. I mean, that's the only anxiety you're gonna have. You shut the system down. I remember my brother's 10 years old. And, he's in the car going over to the the doctor's office. My father's driving. And the car is doing this. K? It's no big deal because the office wasn't that far away. So they're driving over the office, and it's, like, literally, it's from Maymont to Bale Street. So, like, you know, it's old Murfreesboro too, so it's, like, it's not that big. Right? All this stuff. So John, my brother, he's 10. He says he has this thought. Okay. This is his thought. Hell, dad, I'm 10. Let me drive. Now he didn't say it. He put it somewhere. But from that point on, let me tell you, as soon as he could get behind the wheel, he was behind one. 13, sneak it. 14 yeah. I mean, gone. Hell, dad. I'm 10. Let me drive. And I'm telling you, when he was 10, he was a little fella. He didn't see over the wheel. He'd had to stand up to do it. Dad, you push the gas pedal and the brake. I handle the wheel. I drive this thing straight. Guess what he does for a living? He's a pilot for the pilots. He's a captain of the captains for FedEx. He drives things. That's something. Okay. In spite of the pain, hope is that thing that allows us to have to come to a place where we learn how to use the tools to live well in a place that is tragic, that is also wonderful. And we can live in a thing called reconciliation, which means every day you wake up and emit powerlessness over life and you do that first step so you could step into life. And you're literally dedicating your life to surrendering, to not having control so you can have the flow of the one who does have control or how life really works. And all of us who try to control life are just gonna be anxiety ridden and just drive people crazy. Now hope, once you learn the tools of life, guys, once you once you learn the tools of life or in birth and in the process of being raised, you're allowed to to use the tools of life. Okay? You got me? This is big. It's the difference between growing up and separated and growing up abandoned. So we're gonna talk about those two things. Because it didn't matter where you come from, if you grow up and you separate from your family or you grow up and you're abandoned by your family, you're gonna have to face getting kicked in the forehead, period. Do you know what I mean by kicked in the forehead? You've been kicked in the forehead? You know? You've been kicked in the forehead, like like by like a like a mule. Like, okay. That's like a big animal. Everybody in this room has been kicked in the forehead. And if you don't think you have been, you live in la la land. Oh, hey, man. How's the day going? Oh, it's just another day of paradise, man. That's crazy, isn't it? That's somebody living in La La Land. They they they got kicked in the head by the mule, and it kinda, like, stunned them. They stayed there. Alright? Hope is a thing that once you once you are either returned to using the tools God blessed you with at birth or life creation itself. Now the tools are you cry when you're sad, you you howl when you're hurt, You reach out when you're lonely. Yeah. You pursue something when you're angry. You sit, with any guilt and say, I'm sorry. In healthy shame, you say, I'm knee. I don't know what to do. Gladness, you will smile and celebrate. There's tools. And they take you to needs. Say, I need you to celebrate with me. I had this wonderful thing happen. Like, just celebrate. Be happy with me. But how many of us in this room, you heard me say before, something really great happens to you and you're scared of telling somebody because they will be hurt by your joy. That means that you have come from a place that's that's sad. And, like, it's like like, if you take joy, then you will be harming somebody. So once you've got the tools, then hope becomes the thing that allows you to to wait well. It allows you to negotiate life well. You don't get rid of hope and hate hope. You continue to use hope no matter what. Now hope allows you to these five things. I shorten them that hope will allow you to return to the child naturalness, the human naturalness that allows you to wonder, to imagine the new, sort of like be aware of the novelty of life. Now when when the child picks something up, the younger the child, the more wonder there is. Right? If you're gonna live, you're gonna get yourself in some fixes. You know? Because you're gonna be adventuring into living. Because you have this hope thing that says this could happen. This could work. This could be fun. This could be great. This could be an experience. This could add to. This could multiply. A second category that hope allows us to merge into is dependence, that we we depend on the ability to tolerate being dependent on our environment, which gets to trust, but we can depend on tolerating living in our environment. It was kind of like trust, but you depend on your environment. You depend on the people in your environment. Like, the food will come. You know, adding to my story, general surgeon's world and I literally feared homelessness, we'll lose our home. Because I knew the debt was there in spite of the presentation. It's like so I had three pairs of pants and didn't want anymore. And there were times I would crazy try not to eat too much. I didn't want people come over and drink our milk. And there are people at the house a lot. But do you see? And I didn't want people there if if dad was there. And I didn't wanna take too much. And we had a swimming pool and a tennis court. Somebody's crazy. I wasn't depending upon my environment, yet the environment looked extraordinarily dependable. So you see how much about relationship this thing is? It's about depending on people. Isn't it wild? So dependence, courage that in hope you can risk seeing, you can participate in, and imagine possibilities. Exactly what Todd's talking about. See, Todd literally is talking about hope bringing fear that brings you to wonder, curiosity, that brings you to depending, adjusting, trusting that your environment is something you can stand on, that you can rely on, and the courage to step at the risk of the possibilities and imagining. That's what, Todd, you said. And if you can name it and live it, then when somebody comes to you, you don't have to deny it. You can struggle with them in it and just by admit where you are with them, and they can have a little more of it. K? Fourth territory is trust. Trusting that the inner and outer realities are experiences being equally real. I remember last week I hit a place last week where I was in a really tough place. And I wasn't sure, like, about, like, who I could trust. Like, my inner reality was, like like, what I had been real good with. All of a sudden, I'm talking to people, like, cannot believe what you're saying to me because of some wounds and some hurts I've been through, like, with people I was trusting. And like like, whoo. Takes so long to build the trust. It's like, how do I so I was struggling between this thing that I'm talking about, this trusting that your inner reality and your outer reality can move together, have a synchronicity, can be integrated. Like, minor experience of believing your face and your heart and your words to me matches the reality that I end up experienced with you. That basically, I live on this earth and I live with you on it too, and I trust that. A lot of that happens in terms of where you come from. And then finally, hope is the capacity to wait well, to have faith in in the possibility, the experience of what, is it Wynnica calls it potency. But, like, the experience of potency about one's life, the experience of possibility. I have the power in hoping of the possibility that good things can come. I don't have the power to make good things. I have the power in hoping and taking action towards good things happening. I don't have the power. I have the hope and the possibility that these things can happen. I am sure of what I hope for and certain of what I do not see. What do you know that from? Faith. So what's beautiful, hope lived allows us to walk in wonder, curiosity, dependence, courage, trust, and possibility. When a child is born, the child comes into the world with a spiritual root system probably in some low levels at its most primitive for sure, but at its least doubted place Because you can't help or think any other way. Like sunlight, it comes up. It's like, that's what it does. Like a daffodil opens. Like, it's pure. This child does all the things that a child does. Remember, it's really simple. The child will primary need belong and matter. And if the essential affirmation and confirmation occurs, then some of this hoping kinda works out like it's made to. And then the child grows, the child gets older, let's say, the age differs, but let's say 22. And at 22, in a place where hope was healthy, the spiritual root system was alive and working. And in, a hundred years ago, it was called some other system. And a hundred years before that, it was called some other system. And a hundred years before that, it was called some other system. But let's just say life was working like life works on real life terms. At 22, say, Kelly sits down with mom and dad, and she's leaving home. And mama says, baby, can I call you baby? And she says, yes, mom, because I'm leaving. And baby was a a word of affection. You're my baby. You're always gonna be my baby. I don't care how old you get. Not like I'm keeping you enmeshed, but like you're always my child, even when you're grown. And she says, Kelly, baby, it's like, I want you to go. I do. And yet I'm so sad. I'm sad you're leaving. I like you so much, and I'm scared to death, to be honest with you. I'm scared. Pardon me? I wanna keep you here. So that way, I can, like, protect you, but then I'm gonna stop you from living. Then she says, I'll be I'm gonna tell you when you walk out the door and I see your back, I'm gonna bury my face in my hands. I can't even watch you leave. So I'm so glad you're going. So glad. And Kelly's like, maybe I don't want to go, you know, because I'm scared too. And then daddy says, baby, Kelly, I'm a watch you live. I'm a watch you until you're in that car, you pass down the street, turn the corner. And I'm gonna wanna run after you and put you in my arms and hold you and say, don't you do this. You could get hurt. Don't want you getting hurt. So and yet, god, if I stopped you, I'd stop you from your life. Oh, god. I hope that we've given you enough so that when you fall off the horse, you will, that you roll over and cry and call us. But don't you get on that damn horse again, not too quickly. Cry first. See? Breaks the rules. Once you fall off the horse, get back on it. No. Roll over in the ditch and cry your guts out. No matter how much people tell you life's gonna be like that, nobody believes it. You know, 18 year olds don't go into battle thinking they're gonna get killed. They think there's some way they won't get killed. So daddy says, I'm gonna miss you. I wish I'd held you more. I wish I told you more. I wish I'd taken you more places. And even everywhere I took you, I'd do it all over again. Even if I did enough, I wanted more. But goodbye. And Kelly says, I'm so glad I'm leaving. I can't believe I'm doing it. And thank you for letting me go. And it hurts, and I'm so scared. And I can't call you. I know that. And every time it's like, I'm not gonna. I gotta learn. You taught me some things, and more than anything, you taught me that you'll miss me, and it's okay to miss me. So goodbye. Everybody hugs and prays for you, whatever happens next, and then it actually happens. You leave. That's called separation. It's painful. It's beautiful. It's horrible. It's tragic. It's faithful. It's reconciled. It's living in the struggle. It's facing the conflict. We raised you for this, but I didn't want it to happen. Thank God it is. I would have to be harming you to protect me if you didn't go, like reconciliation. And if you're separated from a family, you're allowed to go into the world of the things I just described here. That's called separation versus abandonment. When you get 22, you leave home and, you know, all the things are said. Let me just shorthand this. Basically, you say goodbye, you make things up, you say things to each other, you make up stories, you laugh about stuff, and you hug, and then you leave. And then when you get kicked off the horse, you either stay away from horses or you get back on it. Or you go to some place where you tell stories about horses you used to ride but you never have. You in other words, you live in a hypervigilance of fight, flight, and freeze. And by the way, when you when you got kicked off the horse or fell off the horse, it didn't make any difference to you because you weren't expecting a whole lot different. You didn't know that it already happened to you. There weren't any separating that was ever gonna happen. See, if you come from a place where hope isn't a thriving enterprise and feelings aren't permissive, then you're already abandoned. So when life abandons you, you didn't even know it happened because you weren't expecting anything different. If you separate from a family and life abandons you, you feel it. It's a shock. It's a pain. It really hurts, but you know what to do. It's gonna take you into depression and anxiety. It's gonna take you all over the map because it's your life. But you won't have to lose hope or give up yourself to live it. Isn't that amazing? So hope if you're abandoned? Of course. Hope if you separate? Of course. Hope from beginning. Hope till the end, hope in the middle. If you do it well, then you're gonna be in the cycle of life.

This is Stephen James, the executive director of Sage Hill Counseling. Thanks for listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dodd. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, anxiety, depression, or burnout, please reach out to the Center for Professional Excellence for help. For more than twenty years, CBE's long term residential treatment programs have been helping professional men recover their lives, marriages, and families. To find out more, visit cpenashville.com. Further, if you're a therapist, a pastor, or professional that works with people, and you'd like to be better equipped to help them live fully, we invite you to learn more about Sage Hill Training, an in-depth experiential training to help you bring your heart to the work you're called to do. You can visit Sage Hill Training to register.