When Loss Catches Up With You

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

You're listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dodd. Sage Hill is a social impact organization that helps people see who they are made to be so they can do what they're made to do. In this podcast, Chip sits down with his longtime friend, Stephen James, and tells a story about when loss caught up with him. They also discuss the courage needed to feel in a world where it often seems most wise to numb. Hey, Stephen. Something happened to me, happened with me, something I let happen. All of those things are true on, Saturday. Who wasn't? That surprised me and caught me unawares and loss caught up with me in some ways. And I'm hesitant to tell the story because it it will leave me open to, you know, judge people judging. But I'm willing to tell it anyway because because that's never been your problem. The well, yeah. Yeah. But, I mean, Sonia and I were at this resort. Well, actually it was Disney World. When Sonya and I were at Disney World I mean, if anybody knows you Yeah. That doesn't surprise me. I really like Disney World. I never thought I would because I thought it was ridiculous, but I found some something anyway. So Sonya and I had gone up to ride down one of the slides. A water slide? A water slide at the pool. And, I was up there. Hold on. I saw the picture. I know. But I mean, Sonia, when she said yeah. I'm six five, and and everyone around me was about far high. Four feet five. Yeah. And the little kids look at me like, oh, what's the man doing up here? He doesn't have children that makes it appropriate. You know, it's like so Sonia and I were up there and, we were getting ready because there's a red light, green light. When the green light flashes, you hit and you go through down the tumble and, you know, down the slide and splash it in. And, you know, I don't know. It's because I didn't do that when I was younger or whatever, but still, it's just, so we were up there. And, Sonya was sitting prepared to go in the green light, and I'm standing behind her. And all of a sudden, I I can see out over the whole pool, you know, from that the upper, like, two stories high. And also the lifeguard blew his Wessel just and, and I glanced up and he's going into the pool. And the same time he's going to the pool, the water slide shuts off and there's dead silence. And, I I see a a figure on the bottom of the pool. Oh, no. It's four feet deep. And, I'm it's my god. I mean, I could see, like, the length of an arm and a green in the water, the figure. And he he hits the pool with the that special jump in they do that did not and it reaches under. There's a mother right by this, dark figure. And he reaches in and pulls pulls it out. I say it because it turns out that it was a long sleeve cover up shirt. Oh, god. Yeah. And, he he got it out and he handed it to this mother. And I don't know if it's hers or I don't know what. I said, oh my god, Sonya. It's like, god, I'm sure that was a child. I mean, I I Yeah. Could see. And, of course, everything that was happening, it was amazing. It all happened so fast, so expertly with perfect precision in a world that these lifeguards walk around and they they literally are nodding their head up and down. They're looking at the areas where there's no one. They they do this routine almost like centuries at at some kind of of nuclear plant guarding the secrets of the world. I mean, Disney has their world shape there to make sure nothing like that could occur. Mhmm. And in this place of perfection and protection and something horrific was occurring right in front of me. And they even shut the slide off the moment. Like, they they it everything is so, like, guarded and protected. But anyway, so the the lifeguard handed the shirt to the woman and the slide started back within moments. And Sanya were up there talking. I said, my god, Sanya, I thought it was a child. And, so we went down the slide and and then we got out of the pool and and Sonia went over to our lounges. We we were getting ready to go and and we because we're, you know, getting ready to come home. I said, Sonia, I really thought it was a child. I said, I'm gonna start crying. And the tears just like, god, I can't believe it. But tears just started flowing because that happens all the time. Yeah. And then it's like and it's happened to us in so many ways that, for years considered all the things that happened as, you know, we my family has been through multiple surgeries. I once believed I was sort of cursed for doom like Sisyphus. Sisyphus. Yeah. It's like say Prometheus. He's the guy who got trouble for fire. But the tears says I'm so sad. Like, you know, just injuries, surgeries, William's spinal tumor when he was junior, spinal surgery.

Tenison's Born with spondyl difida, occulta, and and then, you know, my own cancer. And I've always described all those things that had happened to us. None of those things were because we caused them. Of course, we're putting ourselves at life's risk, you know, when these happen because life is risk and we entered the risk. But I described to Tennyson, I mean, we we we're gonna bleed to death of ten thousand paper cuts. I always minimize everything that happened to us is that which it could have been so much worse. Mhmm. And so I never have I remember being confronted like it's not paper cuts. And Sonia has confronted me on several times like, you have cancer, you don't talk about you having cancer. And I've said, because it's like not real cancer. It's like, it's just cancer that's fixed. We fix it. It's, you know, it's done. And, and I'm so well trained. And I think many men and many women and many people were so well trained to disregard the after effects of life happening. Mhmm. That I I I am well trained of the of walking through. Ourselves. Yeah. To survive. Yeah. Walking through the after effects. And I had the great wonderful gift of my losses catching up with me on a Saturday. I did not expect it to happen. In Disney World. When a in Disney World where a child died, that was a shirt. And yet I couldn't leave the child even though I knew it was a shirt. And according to the rules, it's oh, thank God it was a shirt. Yes. Thank God it was a shirt. But it's a child all the time. Still bothering you. It's a child. Yeah. It's a child. Children die. People get cancer. No matter what we plan, no matter how perfect it is, the people's lives who turn out perfectly, unless they know what loss is and grief is, their lives are miserable. So I was struck by the gift of my grief catching up with me at that time and letting it happen, letting myself know exactly what was. Yourself. I felt sad that a child dies, and I was so relieved to know it was a shirt. So such a relief that this time it wasn't a child. Yeah. This time it didn't happen. But, also catching up with the fact that it has happened with us so many times when I thought it would have. Loss. Yeah. We yeah. And, Well, I know a few years ago. I mean, you know the story well. You know, Elijah fell in the fire pit. I wrote the story about that. Do you remember Yeah. The blog I wrote about Elijah? And

just how watching my son's innocence fall away over a couple day period in the nine unit, and he's no in that moment, like, his belief that life was gonna be okay Yeah. Is not there anymore. No. And the only play only way we can meet him was in the confirmation of, yes, he's right. You know? Yes. You're right, son. Like, there's there's no answer to why this happened. You didn't do anything wrong. Your friend's parents' house you're at didn't do anything wrong. Like, this is awful. Yes. And sometimes it's not a shirt. Yeah. You know, and we talked a lot of times about life is tragic and god is faithful. And the only way to reconcile those two things is to let loss catch up with me or you or us and persevere anyway. Perseverance is not endurance. Perseverance is the the tears come with it. The losses come with it. I mean, the the some of the most valiant warriors who have been to face things that that were gonna happen, but we're really not constructed to have to do them, but we can. Mhmm. War. One of the most valiant things that they do and they will claim for themselves is to grieve the losses that finally come to them when the men that they loved don't come back. And they get a resolution in a lot of ways through the struggle of knowing that they couldn't save them. And loss is not comparable either. You know, we we make the mistake of comparing losses that this person has. You do. Like, my I don't have real cancers with you. Yeah. Oh, well, yeah. Yeah. I mean, we minimize I don't. I mean, you actually do have I do, but it's it's not the the the worst kind. It's not the worst kind. But claiming it like I still have it

and still not knowing what to do. And let it teach you. Let it Yeah. Open you up to some new experience. I could still grieve over my sons or Sonya more than me, more than myself. I know that as a man who has a quite a bit of experience in life, I know that by telling the story that it was tearful to me while playing around at Disney World and then, you know, letting myself have that. I know that that sets me up for a lot of guys. A lot of men to go, oh, come on. You're making too much of that shirt in the pool. Absolutely. And yeah. You know what? I am making a lot of it, and I just thank God I care that much. I'm I'm very pleased to be able to care that much because I bought I've I'm staying in it no matter what. And now I know even more of what for. Because it's a child, even if it turns out to be a shirt's worth whatever it takes to care about. You know, we need to be grieving. And I'm sad about life. I'm sad about children. I'm sad about us. I'm sad about all of us.

The older I get, the sadder I get. And I'm willing to have it because this is a mess. Well, how how do we not get them cynical and, like, old commodity, like, back in the day when things were so good and, you know, the world today is so bad? Like, how do we stay out of that? I'm telling you, I think that that reconciliation place is that through our, willing to continue to dream and willing continue to lose, and when Emmanuel no longer means God will rescue us from this, but Emmanuel actually means God with us that we have a place to go that where the truth can be told, what what marriage is made to be like, we can bring it to the one that created it Mhmm. And lay it all out. Like, because the covenant a covenant means I can bring it all. I mean, I know it means more than that, but, I can bring it all. And that whom I'm in covenant with can stay in it while I bring it all. So I think that, honestly, we're able to, like, live in it because God is present with us. You said a minute ago We experienced God in our that that this reconciliation

place requires us to have dreams, like dream new dreams Yeah. After losses. Yeah. How are your dreams different now at almost 60 than what they were five years ago or ten years ago or fifteen years ago? That is a great question. You know, I have looked, and I think in some ways, I'm just beginning to, acknowledge that, I'm older. And I'm I am actually like, I will look back. I'm actually looking back some. And one of the things is that the grief of knowing that much of what I dreamed will never happen. Mhmm. And I actually did believe it would. That's one thing. The second thing that amazes me getting older is that I do not identify myself as of an age. In so many ways, I've noticed I've forgotten how old I am and I somebody's 18 is talking or eight or really, like, 50 or 40. I don't think You mean just simility then? No. No. But I don't think of myself as I'm not looking at myself in comparison to them. I'm talking to them and relating to them as being eight or 18 or or 40 something. It's the strangest thing. That's beautiful. Well, I I guess. And, But how are your dreams changed? And I'll tell you what this too. Being older, I really have found out that that that thing we were talking about earlier, it takes a lifetime to learn how to live. We're always gonna be works in progress that we as human beings are are homo sapiens, but we're also homoterarizers. We're, you know, we're we're we're human beings that are capable of great, damage to each other and that reconciliation and forgiveness seeking and mercy offered are bigger than they used to be to me. Mhmm. You know? Mhmm. How my dreams have changed is, I think probably there's and I used to think of myself as not having so much. It's not about me, honestly. It's about making sure that you get it. And, I absolutely will put my name on it because I think it's foolish to play a false altruistic game. Because we all wanna know we all want to say, yes. I was here. There's my signature. Yeah. But it's about you taking the signature and doing something with it. So it sounds I mean, then if this is right or wrong or accurate,

that it moved your dreams have moved from more aspirational kind of thing The inspiration. To more inspiration. And now I'm writing a book about that very thing Okay. That it's it's not about doing the good. It's about doing the best and that they're real movements of leaving behind something in people's hearts. And that was what I was about to mention. And this this I'd I'm a little scared to say this, but I'm very, very, very, very amazingly so fortunate. I'm so thankful. And I do not I very hesitant to to give credit. I just know I showed up for it, but I could stop now. And I have left behind a lot, and I'm so grateful to have gotten to do so. But I could I could stop now and I could honestly say that, I was here. I did it. I showed up. I gave myself. And you know the one one of the songs that I mean, I I want this played at my funeral. It's embarrassing song, but the impossible dream. That's my personal anthem. And to to to dream it, to this Don Quixote type thing. That in a world where numbness is probably the wise the the most realistic approach to take. I said, no. No. I'm not numbness is not what I'm going to do. And I'm not going to live like that. And I am I'm saying that, you know, you keep reality and I'm going after the truth. And the truth is that we're made a certain way, to live a certain way, to connect a certain way, to dare a certain way, and to not be prisoners and slaves in a place where we're made to to love and take a risk of of caring. I'm not doing it. And I've can say that I've kind of not done it. You know? And I'm so I'm not It sounds like now your dreams are more for other people to not do it. Yeah. I would say that's truer than it's ever been. It's always been there. Yeah. But now Like that part's growing. Yeah. Yeah. That part's growing. Do you know? Fifty eight is is older. It was older than me. Yeah. And I remember yeah. It is older than you. It's a lot. Like like 15. Like a dead a lot. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, I remember judging a guy, who was in his fifties. I was in my early thirties and reading something he'd written and he said something about it and, you know, he still struggles with so and so. I remember thinking, good gosh. You are struggling with that and you're that age? Come on. You know, deal with it, you know. So Oh. And now I'm glad that left you. Well, more than ever has. And I tell you, my oldest son said something to me. You know, I said something about living the answers. And he said, you know, dad, you you don't live the answers. But I said, no. I have some answers. He said, dad, honestly, that's true. But what what I've watched you do is you live the questions well. That's the secret. You're not living the answers. You live the questions. Hold the better question. Like, carry a better question.

Ask the honest question. Live vulnerably in the question. Yeah. Because the questions, like, really expose our neediness, really expose our our, need of God, our need of other people Yeah. Our powerlessness. Yeah. And we all want answers, but we really have a lot more questions. And, Stephen, I am a witness to, for me, the fact that witness means experience, not just belief, but Emmanuel. God is with us. And those who are most needy know it most. But it's a knowing. I I know that God is with us. And that that is that's a good thing. This is Stephen James, the executive director of Sage Hill Counseling. Thanks for listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dodd. If you're interested in learning more about the power of our core eight emotions, I encourage you to check out Chip's book, The Voice of the Heart, A Call to Full Living. If you're a therapist, a pastor, or professional that works with people, and you'd like to be better equipped to help people live fully, we invite you to learn more about Sage Hill training. This is an in-depth experiential training to help you bring your heart to the work you are called to do. You can visit sagehilltraining.com to find out more.