Surrendering To Being Human

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

You're listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dodd. Sage Hill is a social impact organization that helps people see who they are made to be so they can do what they're made to do. Hey, Steve. Hey, Chip. How are you doing? I'm doing well. It's kinda end of the day. So, I mean, you Yeah. You've worked. I mean, really poured yourself out. Today. I have. And I noticed that that that 04:00, 04:30 hour has always It's a hard time. Hard. However, honestly, truly, it was the way it's been for me. Once you and I start talking, I forget what time it is. You know? So that's a good thing. So Yeah. It's good. Once the interest starts. I'm glad to be back doing this with you. It's been a few weeks since we've done it. Time. Yeah. You're out of town on vacation, and I was out of town. Yeah. Where'd you go?

Went to a beach. Actually, a place called Ponte Vedra. Where's that? Near Saint Augustine. Okay. And, actually, sadly, for the people in Saint Augustine, it was a week. We were there a week and a few days before the the hurricane hit and flooded lots of the area. Oh, really? In fact, Sonya has an aunt who lives there and had to, you know, be evacuated. Her daughter became a doctor, and they went 20 miles inland and so on. However, the week we were there actually, the the two weeks we were there were honestly fabulous. The beach was almost deserted, 85 degrees. And, it's just quiet. Mhmm. And the house we stay in we've stayed in for years is a little one of the old timey block houses Oh, yeah. That has been sort of updated inside but still has the same outside look. But the the plants around, horticulture around it's really improved. I mean, there's a deserted house beside it, an empty lot on the other side. Is not like the Riviera. This is Well, it's it's better than the Riviera. The real people live there. Well, it's no. Who knows? I didn't see them. I mean, it's it's it's that that good. I mean, there's there's it's like we're on an island because there's no one beside us, and the beach is literally 20 yards away. Oh. So and, and we would sometimes hang on the beach and maybe two people would pass during the whole day. Real different from a lot of the beaches or most beaches I go to. Oh, yeah. The Gulf's usually

Crowded. Crowded. So Yeah. Well, one of the things I love when you go on vacation, and I hate, is that you come back, like, really recharged, you know, and and you've had a lot of time to think Yeah. New ideas. And even back a couple of weeks now, but you've been, like, full of new ideas, full of, like, continuations and deepening of old ideas. You know, and I I thought it'd be good for us to kinda step off into some of that stuff. Yeah. That that'd be that'd be great. You know, like, I'm unsure what you're talking about, but I'll tell you. I mean, I know what you're talking about. And yet do you know a lot of times I'll be sitting or I'll glance and read something or, some a thought will come to me. And you said continuation of things we're already talking about. Mhmm. What's the most amazing thing? Some of my, things that that that I just think are, like, revelatory almost, like illuminations are so obvious. It's like like, I'll come up with Like, you've discovered this thing. Like, I've discovered this thing. There the whole time. It's right in front of my face the whole time. Yeah. I just never saw it. Never saw it. And, a lot of things like that happen, early mornings are when the brain can release from the task it's been assigned into the freedom of being unassigned. Do you know? It's like you're free to spend time focusing on not what you've been assigned to do, but what you're made to do or called to do. Kinda opens up the vistas a little bit. So you kinda like exploring known slash unknown territory. Wondering. Wondering. The intentional daydreaming except deeper. Wondering. Yeah. You know you know, I think we've talked about this before, but vacation, the word vacation, I think is a of course, it's a great word, but but it's a bad word in in terms of what it really means. Like, you go someplace to vacate. You vacate where you are to go vacate who you are. You leave your house and duties and responsibilities behind to go to a place where you also are attempting to vacate who you are. Like, you're going to get away from your life, going to get away from, you think, the pressures, but you you have to get away From yourself. From yourself. Yeah. Because wherever you go, there you are. So So when you're on vacation, how do you keep bumping into yourself? I don't call it, I mean, I call it vacation. But I go not to get away from me, but I really do go finally after, you know, years. I go to spend a lot of time with myself and Sonya and a god. So, you know, it used to it'd be like, say, a week a week could a time away away from work meant to try to get away from my life. So two days to let down, three days to have fun, two days to prepare and dread to return Yeah. Which and and therefore, the whole time was forgotten. This time, just as an example, I'm not vacating. I'm recreating and which means, like like, creating again and just stopping to replenish again or restore again, which means facing is, a lot of times, Sonia would tell me that you work so much more than you think you work. So Yeah. You work hard. But I but, see, I don't I I still am out of touch with That is so bizarre to me. But, yeah, that's weird. It's because you're always,

like, generating something. Yeah. An idea, a a desk. Because, like, a desk sitting in the office room right now that you built because you had some spare wood. Yeah. There were some bookshelves that you threw together because you needed them. They're more they're made of cedar. They were more than thrown together. These bookshelves from trees that I cut down that I took to a lumber yard up in, really the hills of Woodbury, brought in here after I built with Shell's house. So God just love the idea that from from tree to Yeah. See Rome was built. Incredible. You're on vacation. You see, like, a ant crawl across the windowsill, and somehow you've connected it to the grand scheme of God. Oh, wow. And then you're sending text back about it. Like Yeah. Like, oh, I got this idea. I got this idea. We're just ants on God's windowsill.

so I'm glad I'm not here because you and who are gonna, like, look at this. You had a deep thought. Check that. Yeah. Deep thoughts. But I tell you, like, the replenishment and restoration, it means facing the need to have time to, like like like, come back to yourself. Yes. Do you know? And I tell you, we used I was talking about the obvious. Something that hit me that's so obvious that it it's kind of I love it, but it's very obvious. But, like, we we deal in the world of of all the time about, you know, see who you're made to be so you can do what you're made to do. Because, I mean, that that is really, like that's what I think about the time. That's my personal mission in life that I was doing before I knew the words for it Mhmm. Before I knew the sentence of it. So that's kind of what I think about. Sometimes science is like star man. It's like you'll be standing there and something's dropping off the counter or something. And then, you know, she said, what are you doing? It's like, I was I was thinking about I'm having a deep thought. She said, like, I have to compensate for you. We poured a cup of coffee. It's just spilling everything. No. Not at all. Not at all. Not at all. Because I'm so hypervigilant about making mistakes. But but here's the obvious thing. Do you know we have this we have this, fight, flight, or freeze capacity? And, nature itself has the same thing. But this is what's amazing how humans differ from, let me just say, quote, unquote, nature, quote Like other mammals. Yeah. Or other actually, like, life. See, like, we have a fight, flight, or freeze. And what's amazing is if you go up to a a a, say, a flock of robins, say, you know, robins are right now in the fall and the spring. They're they're migrating one way or the other. And you notice, like, in the backyards or front yards, you'll see, like, you know, like, 50 robins will be be there. If you run out into the yard, they all fly up and then maybe come right back to doing what they were doing. Right. Seagulls, same thing on the beach and just walk into a little flock out on the on the, sand. They'll fly up and land somewhere nearby, continue to do what they were doing. So, heck, you know, even starlings, I remember I clapped my hands under the sky. Yeah. They like, if there'd be a thousand of them, they'd take off a few minutes or seconds and then come right back to doing what they were doing. So so nature, like birds, they fly. They flee because they're startled and their physiology just removes themselves from danger and they come back. A wolverine, a badger, you put your hand in the badger's territory, the badger fights. It doesn't flee. It fights. And then as soon as the fight is, has its consequences for better or worse, it returns to doing what it's doing. And of of all creatures, a possum, a funny creature. I mean, it's got I heard you say one time, an opossum's like God's a leftover part. Yeah. I know. It's like you ran out of energy. God God just just after he finished creating everything, saw some parts left over and stuck them. We gotta make a possum. The possum's like this giant supercharged rat that has mange and the snout of a wolverine And a pouch for his dog. And why he ain't walking around apologizing all the time. Makes a duckbill platypus cute. Sits out in the middle of the highway as entertainment, just waiting for waiting for the good stuff to happen. In fact, I said, hey. It's almost dark. I better go out in the middle of the highway.

The car is coming. Anyway What are these bright lights coming towards me? So That's the faint. Yeah. Blossom under threat of preservation, will freeze. And then as soon as the threat is removed, it, loses its memory, quote, unquote, and goes back to doing what it's made to do. Mhmm. And so, that's nature's course, and they can't help it. They're startled. They can't help. And returning to what they're made to do, they can't help. And this is what, to me to me, is amazing. We human beings, we're made the same way. In fact, even the the words of, the Jesus says, do not worry because he knows we will. He's got that. So it's not like a command to you better act a certain way. And if you are worrying, something's wrong with you. What it's saying is if you are worrying, you've lost touch with you. With your biggest needs. Yeah. Because it says it literally talks about the lilies of the field. They don't reap. They don't sow. And yet, they're dressed in raiment that is greater than what Solomon could even manufacture, and yet they're here today and gone tomorrow. And then it says the ravens of the field, they they are fed, and ravens are like trash birds. Yeah. And yet they're fed. And then he says, do do you not think that that you don't matter so much more than even these and yet look what god does with these? So it says seek first the kingdom, his kingdom, which means there's a king and a kingdom, which means there's a fortress, which means there's, a refuge, which means there's a a place to replenish, a place where you're saying all the wrong stuff. Scripture, the kingdom, especially in the New Testament, is always within. Right? Seek The first the kingdom within. Yes. And you go there, but also you meet something there that gives you the capacity. And I love what you just said. That gives you the capacity to return after being startled to the surrender back to the trust process. But human beings, once we get startled, we we end up developing a terror response of predicting the future, which a robin can't do, a possum can't do, and a badger can't do. They start a response and they go back. They don't have the brain capacity to picture a future. And I get they can anticipate danger. I get all that. But we You're talking about anxiety. Yes. Exactly. Creation of negative outcomes. And anxiety, and and I know I'm gonna have anxiety the rest of my life. I get that. Because it's gonna be part of life. But I can continue to work and surrender stalled response that's natural to me versus a way of life where I'm tempting to predict a future without God in it. You know, it's like I stay out of the kingdom of God within, and I stay in the the future where God doesn't live. Negative outcomes where God doesn't live. Because our anxiety is a picture of being ripped to pieces, and nothing could be done about it. And the It's up my anxiety is always up to me. Yes. There's no god in my anxiety. No. And so we make ourselves little gods and cast ourselves in the future where we're little gods facing the great Zeus of roving, uncaring life that overwhelms us and wind up help us. And the the god of the kingdom doesn't live in the future. The god of the kingdom lives in the present where the lilies are and the ravens are and the possums and the robins and do you see what I'm saying? Yeah. So I'm saying that that, like, monarch butterflies I remember when we were down in Florida, and this happened just recently even that the monarch, migration was occurring. And I I I could stand out on the little boardwalk and and stand in their tunnel. They they they have about a 12 foot feet of a span of a tunnel that they were flying in towards their their migration. They were, like, pockets of four and three and seven flying past me. And I could look a mile one way and a mile another to see little dots. How do they know? We have a bird nest. You have a bird nest that's in your counts in say to your counts. I have a bird nest on the front under a jar. And these birds make a bird can make a nest, and it doesn't have any feet. I mean, it doesn't have any hands. Yeah. Do you know? So I'm just saying that there's something to surrendering to how we're created so we can connect the way we're created so we can become who we're made to be and live the way we're made to live even in a place where bad things happen. Way we're made to live even in a place

where bad things happen, but the bad things don't have to control our lives. And the and the so much of anxiety is rooted in the wish or the desire for bad things not to happen. Right? Like, I don't want bad things to happen again, so I've gotta plan my future. Yes. Not even bad. So we're not mired and helpless. Right? Like, it's it's a but it it's fruitless unless we return to how we're made within. Yeah. Yeah. And then when we return to how we're made, we're going to wind up experiencing that thing we spend in our lives to get away from. Pain. Whatever that place of helplessness is. Mhmm. Because helplessness is almost like past pain. It's the need to to numb, freeze, fight against, let let it happen, or flee from pain pain in a place we can't get to. Like, helplessness is different from pain because pain has no purpose in helplessness. Do you know what I'm saying? Mhmm. Like, helplessness is past powerlessness. It's that there is now no hope for a creature that can't stop hoping. It's horrible. Yeah. And almost every, frankly well, a lot of people wind up being in a position without even knowing it because they have to dissociate from it of having experienced helplessness, and their anxiety is directly connected to making sure it doesn't happen again. I mean, that's why the starling flies off the wire to make sure it doesn't get harmed. But then it goes back to what it's made to do, and we don't. We don't. We don't go back to what we're made to do. I think it's because humans are made so much to be able to to connect, to value life, to remember, to attach, to be able to grieve great losses. I remember okay. The squirrels would come and eat the bird seed at our house. Mhmm. And squirrels always do. Oh, buffet. I know some people don't like this, but I would, like Oh, this I would I would shoot a squirrel.

Like a rat with a tail. Well, that's what I yeah. That's what you used to say. Yeah. Yeah. And Sonya thought Sonya said, oh, I know what you can do so you won't have to shoot the squirrel. Like, I didn't have to anyway. But she said, take a squirrel and after you've I don't know if I need to tell this, but after you shoot it, just, like, leave it there. And if another squirrel comes up, it'll see that one and it'll stay away because it knows it's a bad place to be. Be. If a squirrel sees it, a dead squirrel heading there. It crawls over the top of it. It doesn't even matter because they cannot connect like we do. And so while, you know, it's it's beautiful that They don't have anxiety. Their fear is momentary. Yeah. And but but their fear is momentary because they don't connect like we do. They can't remember Yeah. And value life the way we do because

but my point about the Well, hold on. You used to have a great connection. That anxiety, while future focused, is really anchored to our past. Yes. And so many of us are trying to avoid our past by worrying about the future. It keeps us from living in the present keeps us from living in the present. Where the gifts of life are, and it's where god operates most clearly in where we really live. But what I was saying was, like, we we're we're not made to live like robins and possums and badgers. But we are created to surrender to a process where ours is different, but it's still part of the whole process that, you know, like, you can give me the same nutrients as a pecan tree and it'll kill me. So but that's still a process. Like, I could pour, like, water on you and put you out in the sun and cover you with dirt and you would die. I made to feed off of attachment, connection, relationship, you know, encouragement, emotional spiritual connection is the food for for a human being. So we need to go ahead and let ourselves be anxious coming from and get back to living in surrender of how we're created so that so that here's my point too. So that and this is why. I know it sounds weird, but robins and possums and badgers live in grace. And I don't mean the grace that, that we think of just theologically, but the grace of creation, life, and cared for with without having to to to be responsible for finding their own food, reaping and sowing, that that we are saved by grace through trusting the process faith, not by our reaping and sowing our work, our capacity to control the future to prevent things from happening, but we're saved by grace through faith, not by our own works so that we end up boasting and depending upon our own works, but we're saved by grace through faith because we are God's masterpieces, poetry, workmanship, craftsmanship, where God's love being expressed is the pinnacle of creation, created in Christ Jesus to do creative works or do our works. So what I'm talking about is, like, the Robin has surrendered To being a robin. To being a robin. And humans And the process of being a robin and and will fly off in danger and come right back to being itself. As long as I despise and have contempt for my humanness,

then I will have to live in anxiety. Yes. Because I refuse to be needy. Yes. And so what what you're saying is, look, I'm gonna startle. That's part of being a human being. Yes. But it's what I do after I startle. Yes. Do I recognize I'm afraid? And do I return back to being this human in this? Will I go back to being who I'm created to be myself? Uniquely created as a masterpiece. For so many of us, though, like, we've been away from ourselves for so long. That to go home to ourselves is a very unnatural unnatural experience. Yeah. It feels bad. It feels scary. The home we came from might not have been safe. Yeah. I might have been safer in my anxiety and my vigilance Mhmm. Than actually at rest at home.

Yeah. And and I, and listen, we're we're all gonna be anxious in our lives. Yeah. We're all gonna have depression periods. We're all gonna harm each other. We're all gonna come from imperfect families. But the best imperfect family is the family that that that does feelings, that does life on life's terms. And almost everyone that I know, myself, heck, my children, all of us, but the people who are the, tend to tend towards getting stuck in anxiety also come from places where the feed there wasn't room to process the experience of being human, the feelings of life. You know, that, through parents and the people around them. Grandparents. Yeah. It gets communicated that, these feelings are weaknesses instead of natural to, who you're created to be. And even I think even more than feelings being weaknesses, I think people just it'd be well, people hate needs more than they hate feelings because there's some families that are not emotionally healthy or spiritually grounded, and there's all kinds of feelings that are taking place. It might be impaired, but there's feelings. But the thing reactivities, like actions. Yeah. And they'll even have, like like, weeping, and they'll have, like, tons of shame and fear. But what they won't have Chaos around that. Yeah. Chaos around feelings. But what they what they won't have is the thing that tames the feelings, which is neediness. The vulnerability of neediness. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Because once my feelings await me to my neediness, then it's just not feelings for feelings sake. It's like Uh-huh. Now I have I am compelled to go do something with someone else or with God around my neediness. And I I think the only thing it's neediness, not as much feelings that that a lot of families stay away from. Uh-huh. And almost all of the feelings

are literally about awakening to neediness. Yeah. Wow. I mean, Chip, like anxiety, neediness, fear, possums, badgers, and robins. And I am like those things, and I'm so much more. And and the obviously, this is gonna require us talking more. A lot. And yet and, Stephen, this surrender thing, rendering back over, giving back to god and others what we took away from them is gonna be is so big to living how we're made. Do you know? Because, like, being you know, we we take away our hearts from others Yeah. And we make ourselves invulnerable when actually vulnerability, the willingness to be wounded is the key to having the courage of loving again. Right. So it needs to be said as we wrap up, anxiety is not badness. No. It's not failure. No. It's not sin. No. It's it's humanness. Yeah. And then it's the investment in my future that I can't control. Yes. It's the struggle of living life on life's terms without having and knowing how to face whatever it is. My past again Yeah. So I don't have to live in the present moment. Absolutely. Just part of being human. Yes. But if we stay stuck in anxiety, we miss our humanness and we miss our And you know what? Apostle

isn't weak for freezing in the midst of danger. Apostle's being apostle. This is Stephen James, the executive director of Sage Hill Counseling. Thanks for listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dodd. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, anxiety, depression, or burn out, please reach out to the Center for Professional Excellence for Health. For more than twenty years, CPE's long term residential treatment programs have been helping professional men recover their lives, marriages, and families. To find out more, visit cpenashville.com.