Full Life Is In The Pain, Part 2

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

You're listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dodd. Sage Hill is a social impact organization that helps people see who they are made to be so they can do what they're made to do. You're made to have life, so you gotta have a life, but you gotta have control, which is false self finally becomes exhausting. Then you have to have something that relieves the anxiety, relieves the exhaustion. That's what's called some form of addiction, addiction behavior. Mhmm. And so your true self is squeezed between to death. And you know who suffers? Anyone who loves you, And you know who suffers? Anyone who loves you Mhmm. And the god who made you and the person you were created to be. So when I talk about, you know, people seeing who they're made to be, so they do what they're made to do, it's about having missed it, and it's about not wanting to miss it anymore. It's about what brought you up here because, you you know, you read The Voice of the Heart, and you said, said you wanna be a part of that. Like, something like that or I remember reading it. I was in Branson, Missouri Yeah. On

And you're gonna say Branson, Missouri? I go go vacation. Gotta date everybody. Yeah. Like, all the cool people go Don't you ever say anything you wish you hadn't said? By then, I miss Vegas. Hey. I told Sonia I wanna go to Branson, Missouri. She says, no. No. No. She said, I wanna see it. Nobody cool going to Branson. That's great. But there I was in New York City. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. You're in Chicago? I was in Chicago. I was in Branson, Missouri reading the book, and I remember thinking to myself, this is so simple, but there's something in it that goes beyond this makes sense. I mean, of course, it makes sense. We read a lot of stuff makes sense. Yeah. It was reaching into something, kinda what you said a while ago, is re it was reaching into my ignorance and blindness about heart and tap tapping into something. Because I I remember reading the book going, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember going, oh, yeah. This of course. Of course. Of course. Over and over and over again. And and once person with my experience with at least, once you you get back into the language you're intended to have Uh-huh. Then things expand like dreams, like what what could be next. Not next, like, till I can get out of this place I'm in, but is there something beyond what I'm doing to just get through the day? Uh-huh. Opens that up. Opens that up for me. Yeah. Which opened up to dreams.

Which opened you up to getting in the truck Yeah. And coming up here. And I did not even realize how lonely I was in doing this dream. I I somehow, I was still associating dreaming with also by yourself, which was a lot like childhood. Mhmm. Dreams were kept to oneself. Mhmm. You're saying, uh-huh. Say say. Well, I've just you you know. You used to call me Walter Mitty. Yeah. You know, my dreams were all internal Yeah. Imagination. Yeah. Had a whole several lives we were at one time. Yeah. It's like you could be, work at security at the bank or mopping the floor talking to your mama, but you're in, you know, you're deep sea diving. Well, I'm somewhere else all the time. You just hit a home run. Yeah. Yeah. Do you remember when you told your father you came home and you told your father that a Russian came to school? This was during the Cold War period. A Russian came to school and you you beat him up. Yeah. I do remember that as a matter of fact. Do you remember coming home? Tell the story about, that you won the reading award and, what's that what's that story?

I remember, I I kept you know, home for me was mixed bag like most people. Pretty scary place a lot of the times. And so I really wanted to get on the radar. Mhmm. I mean, I'm this kid, you know, all of my With your parents. About seven years. Yeah. You know, it's a kind of an only child still at that age. And I just remember thinking, I I need to get, you know, I need to get up on the radar. These people Yeah. Be proud of me for something. So, I think we must have had some kind of standardized test that day or something. Yeah. Or maybe I made it up out of the blue. It wouldn't be unusual either. And so I came home and told my mom, I grew up in Cobb County, Georgia. I said, mom, guess what? They got this fancy computer hooked up to all of us. I'm the fastest reader of Cobb County.

It's crazy. And completely, utterly made up, Walter Mitty. Oh, yeah. You're when are you third grade? You third grade? Third or fourth. Yeah. Right. I'm like that. And see, the thing was, and you you tell the story, and that's a start. Obviously, she recognized you, saw you. You were like, okay. This is the way to go. Yes, sir. And, we do you mind telling the story about how that cost you in the boxing championship? Do you mind telling that? Do you? Do mind indeed, but I will. Do if you do if you mind, don't tell it. We just cut it out of here. But This is crazy. How old are you now at this point? This is junior high, what you used to call junior high, like eighth grade. Okay. So you're in eighth grade. Yeah. And you don't live in Cobb County anymore. Well, You don't live in Amory, Mississippi? No. You've yeah. Well, I I still live in Cobb County, but I changed schools. Okay. They're in the Okay. In there. So But but but you but just so people you you're a kid that you never had a hometown. Oh, no. No. No. You you dreamed of one, Amory, Mississippi. Uh-huh. And then left at seven years old. Went to Cobb County. Uh-huh. Went to Marietta, Georgia. Moved all over there. Moved all over that area. Then you went to Southaven. No. Went to Shawnee Mission, Kansas. Kansas. And then Which was not was not good. You thought you were a Yankee then. Yeah. That was all They thought you were a Yeah. The first, we the first snowfall of the year, we had about three inches on the ground. My parents didn't make us up for school, figured we wouldn't go. Okay. So they something wrong with me. So Kansas and then then South Haven? South Haven and then more Oklahoma. Which you did not appreciate that much. Nope. And then more Oklahoma. More Oklahoma. And by then, you were had been in how many schools?

I think by my twelfth grade year, I've been in nine schools. So attachment and trust No. And, you know, in your mind, you survive with being the hero in your own Own stories. World. You know, back fastest read like Deal from To Kill a Mockingbird. You know, I'd read. In case y'all can't read, I'd read. If y'all want me to read something for you. If y'all want something red, I can do it for you. That's me. That's me. So junior high, eighth grade. So I don't know what possessed me to do it. New place again, and, I just decided I'd tell people I was a champion boxer. I probably said golden gloves. I don't remember exactly. That's his champion boxer. But that I know coach Walsh, who was in because you went out for football. Gym it was a gym class. Yeah. Okay. Oh, yeah. I did go out for football. I played football. I played football. I played football. I played football. I played football. But, he disappeared, came back with two sets of boxing gloves and, set me up with this guy. I said, alright. Good. Give it a whirl. That dude beat me to a pulp. Yeah. He was right there on a on a wrestling mat. But the the the the gym teacher over the coach slash gym teacher over here you said. Oh, you didn't tell him. No. Well, I mean, probably. He was around, I did. I was like You said, yeah. I was I was the golden gold boxer in Cobb County. I did not discriminate my audience. I just say it. So, yeah, coach Walsh disappeared, came back with two sets of gloves and said And he goes, hey, Rudy. Come here. Here you go. Sure. Sugar Ray Robinson put these on. Oh my goodness. And, I I put them on. I figured I probably will put them anyway, and he just wore me out. Yeah. Phil,

that that story is funny, but what's funny is that, you know, did you really do that? We're laughing like, no. No. No. You didn't do that. Right. And then what'd you do that for? Mhmm. And then where does the story go then? What'd you do that for? And Right. Then it goes to heartache, no attachment, scared to death all the time. I don't matter. Life. Yeah. Wandering around. Where do I belong? Oh, I get it. Nowhere. So I'm gonna make a name any way I can Yeah. Survive the next day. And I remember I remember thinking I was so embarrassed. I remember thinking, well, probably next year, I'll be somewhere new anyway. Like, okay. So I can hide out the rest of this year because I'll be gone. Yeah. I don't remember what what point. I can get a new start. I can get a new name. New identity. I get a new identity. Oh, god. You make up new stuff. And then now you and I look at each other like I can't believe. But it's sad, isn't it? It's sad and true.

It's really sad. Yeah. I mean, that that little example, there are hundreds of examples like the ride kinda made up my own life Yeah. That wasn't hardly that wasn't even noticeable. No one knows any different. Yeah. And that that was my life. Yeah. Just dual tracks all the time. Yeah. Not knowing that I was between five and five. Yeah. But, boy, you squeezed as much life out of zero as you could. It was all it was all fantasy. Yeah. You're a bit of it. You know, I heard you talk one time actually, I've heard you talk a lot of times. Do you remember when Tennyson and William baseball ended, they went out to left field. And, it's like you talked about how wonderful that was that they had a hometown. They grew up in a place. You said, I wonder what that was like Oh, yeah. To grow up there. And then your son Luke was, let's see now. William's 25 four five. It'd be five 25 in December. Luke's 19? He's 20. Just turned 20. Right? Okay. So He was about eight almost nine when we moved here. Yeah. So five years old. So do you remember talking about Luke grew up in in a hometown? Yeah. Luke had a hometown. Mhmm. And then Luke got bunch of friends. And then Luke has been very, you know, solid, like, you would call it adequate. I would call it superior, you know. I mean, but he's done very well in school. He's got cuts grass at the, you know, country club, runs big machinery and has a guy out there just crazy about it, wants him back every year. And then he goes to college and I mean, he has these buddies and he goes on trips with the same friends he's had since he was nine. And and you told me how much you hate him? Yeah. Would you say some more about that?

You know, I've Say, I hate my son. It's like it's like but it's heartache again. We laugh about it. Yeah. And I know you're kidding when you say it. Sure. And what are you talking about when you say it? There's a little scene. They had played a game in high school. You know, he played high school baseball. He they played a game, and he had a friend who had a jeep. And, they, this jeep came from the into the parking lot of the high school where he went, and there were probably five or six guys, boys Yeah. In this jeep. They had their shirts, other uniforms still on. They were, you know, had their turf shoes on, and I they were just their mouths were wide open. They were just laughing their tails off, just having a time. Yeah. And, they pull up in that Jeep next to us, and and all those boys spoke to me and and Sheila, hey, miss miss her. Hey. Yeah. Laughing. Everybody knows everybody's parents. We know all these boys on the team. Yeah. And just like a wave hit me, like, you know, quote, unquote, I hate my son for the of course, I don't. Sure. No. I'm thinking about what he's experiencing in these moments that he probably doesn't even realize these kids he's known since third, fourth grade Yeah. Growing up with them. Yeah. Like, he's just laughing and carrying on and riding in that jeep and jumping out and grabbing his bag. And and all those kids are speaking to me and Sheila, and other parents are around there saying, hey, to all the boys. And I remember thinking that this is exactly what I have I had always wanted. Always dreamed. He doesn't see it. He's being himself. He's having fun. He's messing around. So Gets to take it for granted. Knows his way around the town. I remember moving different places, and I'd get my car by myself and go go find out where each road went in the town. I didn't know where I was going. Somewhere new every year. And and get ready. And and nobody was sorta, like, helping you find out. You were doing this by yourself. Yeah.

You said something a little while ago. You said, you know, well, most of us well, of course, most of us go through that. And you know what? Luke has, some of the great aches and pains of life, but he's never gonna go through never having a hometown or and frankly put, he has a home. Yeah. But he's gonna have grief, heartache, heartbreak, you know. Mhmm. And when you say you followed your dreams, ended up giving him a home, town. Mhmm. And, he's gonna have the same heartache and heartbreak, and his joy fills you with heartbreak. Mhmm. And I love his joy. And he gets to have it. Uh-huh. And it's heartbreaking. Uh-huh. And if you did not have your heartbreak, where do you think you would be with your joy with him?

Secret jealousy. And I've thought that question a whole lot. Uh-huh. We've talked about it actually, I think. Uh-huh. It'd be secret jealousy, extreme bitterness. Yeah. How dare him be so carefree and enjoy his life and his friends. Yeah. So you'd be, like, irritation towards him would come out and, defense against your own, pain. Yep. Self loathing. He wouldn't be able to appreciate what he has enough. Right. Oh, for sure. That's for sure. Yeah. So there there it is again. You know, if we will people like me and you and and you know what? Look. Reality is we we live on the island of misfit toys. Okay? I mean Yes. It's the truth. It is true. But, if human beings, if if we continue to admit the truth about ourselves and and take the risk of stepping out between five and five and living the truth of being human, it which is between one and ten, letting ourselves live between one and ten, You and I are gonna be able to love better. Mhmm. And, we're gonna be able to, live better. And for those people looking for life, we're gonna be able to lead better. And it all comes from the willingness to be vulnerable because we can't tolerate living between the connecting doors of, two hotel rooms. That's right. Do you know? Yeah. I couldn't take it anymore. Mhmm. That that's how come this whole thing means so much to me. And you and I have gotten to see lives changed For sure. Through through recovery process, application to spiritual root system. You know, Stephen James, who who kinda got got the spiritual root system training going over the past two years. I mean, when he was here office here and before he started Sage Hill Counseling, I remember him walking past my door and saying, golly, this this stuff works. Mhmm. And it's like the invitation to pain. Mhmm. The invitation to telling the truth about your life by feeling it and giving your life back to the process that that which was protecting you no longer has to destroy you, that you can have a life you're made to have. And you can have a life you're made to have if you're willing to pay the price of feeling fully Yeah. The experience of daily living. I mean, that's the real deal. And then the spiritual root system training, you'll be teaching in that this weekend. Yeah. I will be too. Mhmm. And and, really, Steve put it together, but, you know, we together created spiritual root system training that people could come into. You don't have to go to treatment, you know, alcohol, drug addiction treatment, depression treatment, you can go just looking for more for your life. Like, a person like Luke, could go to spiritual root system training because he wants to live, love, and lead Yes. To to know his heart better, to learn the language of the heart. So

that's going well. I was talking to Todd this morning, one of our staff members here, driving in this morning. We're talking about the weekend coming up. And I said, you know, looking back, if if I had been able to know when we were in Fort Worth, Texas, as a pastor, I can't imagine the difference it would make if a staff could go through that kind of training to bring back to the body of Christ what we're actually, what we're talking about today. Yeah. Permission and a language of one to 10. Yeah. Like, go ahead. Live live and live the gamut. Yeah. Go for it. And the body of Christ, we come together and we we can do this together. Yeah. It's huge. You know, as we close,

at that last blog I did about when when William left for college, I walked down to the steps. And those steps were actually at the edge of our, quote, baseball field, unquote, which is a flood plain. Mhmm. I mean, if it doesn't rain, you we got a backstop back there and you hit on it. If it rains, forget it for for a long time. But and I remember how hot it was and sitting down. And I even wrote in the blog that it's like I felt silly. I was ashamed to say out loud Mhmm. What I wasn't ashamed of in private. Yeah. Do you know? Mhmm. But I but I wanted to share it enough to say, you know, this is life. And even if your son is going away to college and it's great, and I look forward to, you know, Sonya and I being back together before, before, like, before children and still it's like, you know, saying goodbye to him even though it'd been forty eight hours, it was a goodbye that was gonna be the rest of our lives. Mhmm. And in some ways, you know, somebody make fun. Well, not unless they move home. And then, you know, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about saying goodbye. Mhmm. And one of the things I said was like living between one and 10. If I did not have my heart back, I would have just closed the door on that and might have said, hey. I miss him. Do you miss him, Sonny? And then the door is closed. Or would I let myself be silly enough, quote Mhmm. To to find out where I was. And I just knew I was heavy that day and I walked down to the baseball field and sat on the steps. Sonya said, I'm gonna come be with you. Because she knew it too. Because she was the same place. Mhmm. And I looked at her and and I, you know, just said hey to her. And then I I just said, I miss him so much. And I just start crying because it's like all the whoosh of our lives and the memories and and regrets all coming together in that spot. And just like, it's okay to tell the truth because instead of closing the door, it's one of those squares that is sewn into the quilt of our lives called memories. It's our stories. And if anybody wants to know them we could say, hey look, the door is not closed. If you wanna know the story, here I am. And if you don't, then here I am anyway. Mhmm. I mean, I lived it whether you know it or not.

This is Stephen James, the executive director of Sage Hill Counseling. Thanks for listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dodd. If you're interested in learning more about the power of our core eight emotions, I encourage you to check out Chip's book, The Voice of the Heart, A Call to Full Living.