Hope

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

You're listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dodd. Sage Hill is a social impact organization that helps people see who they are made to be so they can do what they're made to do. Chip, good afternoon again. Hello, Phil. Here we are back at our little spot. Yes, sir. You know, I've gotten some texts from this previous podcast of people saying, please do not tell me where y'all are doing people familiar with our building. They're saying, do not tell me where you're doing this. I've already got a vision in my head. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. This is a new room compared to the That's right. How many people seen this one? But, so we're gonna talk about something today. The really, really common word, but there's a whole lot to it. It's actually part of the spiritual root system that we talk about a lot, and it's a word called hope. Yeah. I've heard you say this this statement. I've heard you say that people can become prisoners of hope

rather than being liberated to hope. Yeah. That's a that's a big Yes. That's it. You know, I'll end up saying some of these things that they actually it sounds like poetry or, calculus or stupid. You know, just that's kind of, poetry. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I don't know hardly anyone that enjoyed poetry in high school, college, or sitting around reading it. So that I say, yeah. People would class fight like you just said as stupid. But I know, actually, it's a it's a a an amazing comment. Oh, by the way, you know what? Thinking about we're talking about hope. And, you know, you and I talked about someday, we're getting old. Yeah. I mean I mean, older. Uh-huh. And, we're talking about when we when we decide we're done with this, we're gonna start Batman barbecue. Oh, it's gonna happen. And, and we have a big cooker out in the woods and wear Batman suits. Yeah. Be greasy from smoking barbecue. And, I'm some people may not know. I'm six four. You're five eleven? Six foot is what I like. Are you straight? No. I'm five eleven. You're five eleven. Yeah. You say six foot. Yeah. The way you walk, the way you carry yourself, easily six feet. But I mean, it's like a tall man, not as tall man, barbecue I mean, a a Batman suits. And we did the commercial and we pointed the camera out in the woods. I mean, it just like this like nuts. And it's like we pointed the camera, go Batman barbecue, Batman barbecue, Batman barbecue, come and get it if you dare, something to that effect. So this is just a story of hope.

Wow. We are we are big hope for sure. The success success in retirement. Oh my goodness. We serve whoever we want to. That's right. And we do it for free if we want to. So but, the liberated prisoners of hope versus liberated to hope or free to hope, it's what that says is that every one of us comes out of the womb, and within the human condition. And one of the characteristics of the human condition is that we are creatures who hope. It's, part of our DNA. It's not going away. It's it's the same things like like cells. I mean, you have cellular life. You have emotional and spiritual life. One of the core characteristics is hope. It's sort of the eternal flame within us that can't stop looking for the possibility of something good coming tomorrow. And it's the flame can be turned down if you think about, like, a propane flame or gas log flame that can be turned down way, way low, but it won't go out. There is sort of like it's even though that flame runs into, say, one chimney, one fireplace, it's hooked up sort of like to the great engine, of hope, creation itself, the universe. And and human beings are incapable, of not hoping. We can be in denial about it, numb to it, dissociated from it, anesthetized out of it, unconscious

related to it, but it's in us. So that's what people would call hopeless is what you just described. Yes. They're numb to a denial of it. Yeah. Yeah. Or they will, they continue to return to the logic that based upon experience that says there's no reason for me to hope. And what they're saying is based upon either some arcane philosophical processes or based upon their experiences in their lives, they say hope is foolish. Mhmm. When actually, hope does look foolish. Mhmm. But regardless, based on where you are with acceptance of hope is whether or not you are a prisoner of it or you are liberated to do it. People who hate hope, because it renders them powerless to to to continue to dream. It renders them, continuing to wish for life that's better even than what they have or wishing that the life they have would continue even though we know it won't always like we wish it would. So hope is that baseline denominator out of which everything

is is divided. You know? So it's it's easy, I think, for people, including me, to make hope more about the pleasantness of something rather than what you're talking about is painful. Yes. It is. Because Hope is painful. Yeah. That is brilliant. Because, you know, if if somebody actually really sits for a moment with hope, when you hope and I hope for something, we're wishing or wanting or needing something we do not have. Mhmm. It's something that's not in our hands. And so when we hope, there's gonna be a feeling that comes with it because life is full of paradox, possibilities, losses, failures, and and receptions. I mean, getting things. And so the moment we hope for something, we're gonna feel afraid because you're wishing for something you do not have and it may not come. And so if a person isn't good at hoping, isn't able to take the risk of hoping, that is a person that usually is unable to know what to do with fear. They don't know that fear is a feeling that brings them to asking for help, that allows them to consider the consequences, that prepares them to practice for results, that, that recognizes danger and and it's a cry out. So, like like, hope puts us in position to have to face fear. Fear puts us in a position to need to ask for help. I mean, so you could see how hope would be a hated thing. Mhmm. If you you and I and we have, both of us, if if you've been through lots of loss, hope becomes the enemy. Yeah. And if you can't have hope, you're a prisoner of it. Because it is bigger than your ability to stop it, control it. You can't if you put yourself to sleep, you miss your life. And so hope, if you hate it, despise it, it's gonna make you have to spend your days putting yourself to sleep. Being negative against it, shaming it, seeing yourself as foolish for having it, idiot, and those kinds of things. But the last time we were talking about this on a podcast, we're talking about living between five and five. Oh, yes. Right. Trapped. Yes. Exactly. Because a person living between five and five has tried to reduce their life to to not having to have pain. But look, you know, when we miss the pain, we miss also the celebration. Because I mean, look, I mean, Luke grew up and left home. I mean, that's great. Mhmm. Your son, Luke. I mean, that's great. It's good. It's a mark of tremendous success. I mean, look, I know a woman who son, died. And frankly, he died at his own hands. And, I think we may have talked about this before, but Sonia and I saw her somewhere at a a nursery. And she said, how are your children? How are your sons? Because our sons and he, their their son, was they were contemporaries. And, and from saying something about, well, you know, my youngest son's having difficulty deciding, you know, what what he's gonna do, you know, with his life. Mhmm. And the woman beautifully said, you know, great. I mean, whatever he wants to do, he needs to do it. And that is a woman speaking out of a level of pain. It just can't go to. Oh. And and this woman, and I know her, has faced what happened. And she was willing in her recognition of that loss to hope for me and Sonya Mhmm. To let William be liberated to go find his life because he has one. Do Do you know? Mhmm. And so she even in spite of what's happened in her life, is not a prisoner of hope. Mhmm. Though every time she awakens to remembering her son, she has to have tremendous pain.

Which gave you and Sonya access to her. You didn't have to be careful with her. You didn't have to measure a word. You didn't have to be hyper vigilant with what you said and how you said it. Yes. Her willingness to do her own pain. Yes. Her willingness to be able to hope talking about William on YouTube, no one was a prisoner. And you know what? It Phil, it sent a little bit of a a a sent a wake up call that, you know, a lot of us spend a great deal of time, frankly, just obsessing or overly concerned about what our what career path our children are gonna take. It's it's more like they need to follow how they're created, and we need to trust that it will happen. Of course, we give them feedback and ideas and stuff like that, many of which they don't want. Mhmm. But we were talking about, like, hope. So but Luke left home Mhmm. And thank God he was alive to do it. Mhmm. That was still a great loss. For sure. And yet it was a hope that had come to completion. Yeah. And now you have new hopes for him and new fears for him. And sometimes, if we can let go and let ourselves hope, because we have he has the life to go do it with. It's like, go live. I'm willing to hope. I'm willing to be afraid about you, son. I'm also willing not to control you. I'm willing to let you go and let my hope go with you. You're not a prisoner of hope. You're liberated to hope. You're setting him free. Mhmm. And you're you're letting him know you're gonna go get hurt, and at the same time, I want good for you, and and on and on and on and on. Whereas if we were doing that as prisoners of hope, we would be managing him, feedback would really be shoulds Yeah. Those kinds of things. Yes. Or, hey, son. I raised you. You know, it's your deal now. I just I've sort of, like, cut him off. Mhmm. You know, I remember, you know, I told you, but basically, you and I have almost grown up together now while our own children were growing up, you know. But, you remember when, Tennyson and William were younger, much younger, William had always watched his older brother, Tennyson, play baseball. And even they were little bitty, two years is a great distance in the early times of baseball. So I remember William hanging on the fence, just screaming, bust one, t bone. Bust one. I can hear you. Yeah. Yeah. And then always wanted to be on the side of the fence where his brother was. Mhmm. Well, they went to high school together. William's freshman year, he was on the team but didn't dress varsity. And I remember they they were, like, number two in the nation at one point, and it was sort of a shoe in that they would make it to the state and win it. But they didn't. They lost in substate. And I remember William coming home. He was so furious. Like, I I could've I could've helped them. They needed to address me. I could've helped them. That didn't have to happen. And and it was that pain of, like, I wanted to be with my brother and I didn't get to. And this is horrible. And what I gotta do to get there next year? And I wanna make sure my brother and he went through this whole story, a whole expression. Well, the following spring, they actually did dress out. The season started. Second or third game, William's getting to do what he'd been dreaming of since he cleaned on, you know, was cleaning on that fence. And, second game, William gets a hit between, I believe short and third. You know, watched him running down to first base, realized something was wrong, and realized he barely made it to first. As soon as he got there, it was really obvious. Like like something he got hurt. I thought, well, maybe, you know, hamstring a little bit, sort of tight or ankle. Turns out, they had to walk him to the dugout, and he had torn a hip flexor, torn a muscle off his hip. And, the doctor said three weeks three weeks turned into six weeks, and he's wondering what in the world his hope was for. What what was I thinking? What was I doing? And this is a 16 year old man child, you know, kid. But he and I were driving into the driveway one night after church. And, he'd been in a youth group. And he he was really into the third, fourth week of this thing. And he was saying, you know what? All everybody's telling me is that it's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. Hey, it's gonna be okay. If they even ask about it, and I don't wanna talk about it anyway, but but they say these things. And you know what? I'm sick of hearing it. I'm sick of people telling me they're praying for me and how it's gonna be okay. They don't know if it's gonna be okay and it's not okay. And then he said, if God did this, then God is mean. If the devil did this and God couldn't do anything about it, then what controls the world? And he said, and then if God didn't even know what happened, then what good is God in first place? And he just outpouring. Great. I'm pulling into the driveway and I'm thinking, good night. These are all great questions. Mhmm. And you're saying them and I don't have answers for you. And I'd like to kinda say now, son, you know, give him the you know, it's your problem when you decide to hope on these things, these things happen. You know, get used to it. But I said nothing because honestly, I didn't have anything to say. I was, he was asking hard questions just like you said. Are you sure? We got out of the truck. Well, I had a truck at the time. Time. He got out of the truck and slammed the door, walked to his car, which he called the Beagle. It was a Buick Regal. Remember, you and I went you and I went to buy it and we're driving it home because, like, it was scary to get it home. Yeah. It was like a but $1,600 I mean, it was not expensive. No. Yeah. But he went locked his car. And I remember thinking, watching him, like, why are you locking your car? Nobody's gonna take it. There's nothing in it. You know? So I think he just wanted something to do. Slam the door. And the beauty of this metaphor is amazing because hanging off our garage is a a shielded covered light, which forms a which would be a circle formed, a semicircle coming out from the garage wall. Mhmm. And he was walking from the dark into the light, and I was walking from the light towards the dark. And literally, he he and I were standing right on the edge of the light in the dark Wow. When I walked up to him. I I just remembered that. What a they call it coincidences. And I think it's the art of life happening to us all the time if we have eyes to see. Mhmm. But he said, dad, look, you know, I I didn't mean a lot of those things. I said, but I know you can hear them. I know you're not gonna freak out. I know you can I know you can hear me say them? Mhmm. You're not gonna run off kinda thing. And I said, well, no, William. I'm not. And that's kinda all I've got to give you. It's like, I don't know the answers to really any of your questions because I think you're talking about pain. And you're talking about hope, and you're talking about grief. And I remember put my hand on his head, had a bur head, baseball haircut, and, well, not this a baseball haircut. But, I mean, he just had a, you know, athletic cut. And and, I said, I I just know I'm gonna be with you in it. That there it is. I'm a be with you in this, your freedom to hope, the years that have come, your risk in doing it, you're not gonna be a prisoner of it. It's in you to have to deal with. Mhmm. I'm a walk you with you while you keep doing it if you dare, because I I had been a prisoner of hope. You've been a prisoner of hope. You and I are both liberated to take the risk of of having it, and it has its benefits. But there's a price to pay. It is, a willingness to return to living life on life's terms and living in some some grief. You know? That is such a great illustration.

You know? And that is such a great illustration of a whole lot of some, you know, minds go to million directions. It is a what he was doing, he had this longing inside of him. We talk about spiritual root system that, you know, recognize those longings, lead to right into this thing called hope. And it seems it seems counterintuitive. It really isn't, but it seems counterintuitive that, a kid kinda blasting out those kinds of questions Mhmm. Is really him hoping. Yes. But it was. Yes. It really was hoping. And you know what? His willingness to hope in that because it was it it turned out even more amazing the willingness to press in because he finally was allowed to dress. And I remember the trainer, great great man. Loving man. Love both my sons. I was so grateful. You know, it's a wonderful thing when somebody outside the family loves your children. Mhmm. Isn't that a an incredible thing? It gives them love. It's so so most amazing gratitude. Uh-huh. But, told him he could dress but, but William, you only go 80%. I remember thinking, there's and the trainer said to me, look, I know he's going a 100. We all know it. And it it was he had had to wait long enough. And I'm telling you, when they joined together, it was they they lit up with fire, you know. It was when they finally got to be together. And I tell you, Phil, that hoping because the following year, Tennyson moved on to college. And, the beginning, before Christmas, William was diagnosed with a spinal tumor. Mhmm. So, on the spinal cord. And, him walking through that, the fear of that, and very dangerous time, you were there. It's a surgeon. I was very grateful for that. Now I really appreciate you being there. Mhmm. But he was prepared to hope from the year before. Yeah. Was not a prisoner of hope, capable of hoping. And I remember when, they took him away from, really, from me and Sonya. But when they took him away from Sonya, her her groaning I remember it was a groan. It was an an like an an an animal. I mean, groan is like, oh, I just and, you know, she started crying and William was gone. And, you know, what's amazing was the first thing, he when he awakened was coming out of, anesthesia, he he said they told him he was okay. You're okay. You're gonna be okay. It was an ependymoma, which was ended up being a benign spinal tumor on the spinal cord and did a great job of getting it off. But after he found that he was okay, he said, good. And he said, how's my mama? Wow. How about that? Yeah. And then, after he found he's okay, he said, good. Because I was so scared. Mhmm. Do you know? It was really beautiful. I mean, I mean, it's horrible. But I'm glad I was I was able to be there. Yeah. And it's everything we don't wanna hope. Uh-huh. Everything. So, you know, god, taking the risk of hoping, having somebody with us in the midst of these great griefs we have related to it, and then allows us to have the strength to keep hoping in the midst of all we have to walk through to in life's multiple transitions.

This is Stephen James, the executive director of Sage Hill Counseling. Thanks for listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dodd. Sometimes in life, we get stuck or blocked or reach an impasse. At times like these, an intensive short term therapy could help you overcome what's keeping you from the growth and changes you desire. At Sage Hill Counseling, we offer therapeutic incentives to help couples gain new momentum in their recovery process. If you wanna find out more, please visit sage hill counseling dot com.