Freedom

Transcript of a Sage Hill Live Fully Podcast conversation with Dr. Chip Dodd. Lightly edited for readability; speaker labels omitted.

You're listening to the Sage Hill You're listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dodd. Sage Hill is a social impact organization that helps people see who they're made to be so they can do what they're made to do. Hey, Chip. Hey, Steve. Hey. This is How are you doing? I'm good. Yeah. Things are different in the podcast room today. How so? Well, our good friend, Derek West, just left, and he set us up with some brand new microphones Yeah. Can you believe me? Recording devices. So we've gone from Of course. He's a high quality guy. He couldn't stand. He wants to listen to us, but he said, like I said Brook was so bothered by it that Derek, you had to help those guys. Hey, we didn't know. We we didn't care. So Chip, last weekend, one of Sage Hill's finest, Blake Snyder, got married at Belle Meade Plantation. It was Eden. Like, we were sitting outside. The sun was setting. And only like in Belle Meade. I don't know how they don't have bugs. It was beautiful. Right. And, she looked beautiful, and her husband, Jordan, is such a great guy. And And a lot of the Sage Hill people were there. Like, you know, a lot of the Sage Hill counselors were there. Uh-huh. It was fun. Afterwards, you know, the bride danced with the groom, and the bride danced with their father, and the groom danced with his mother. And it was time for everybody to dance. Yeah. Right? So I went out there and Sage Hill counselors, we all did like one kind of group day. We went and choreographed. We danced together. And it reminded me of a story you told me recently of of your nephew's wedding in Mississippi. Yeah. And kind of one of the only reasons I dance is because you told me this story. Are you serious? Yeah, seriously. I gave you the freedom to go out there and dance. Well, that's cool. Because I've been told by people in my family That you're a great dancer. I'm never supposed to dance ever. Like, unless it's real slow dancing. Like, almost like not moving dancing that slow. Like, you just hold on to Heather and just kinda like move a step or two. But based on the story you told me, it gave me the freedom to go out and dance with some friends for a few minutes, and then my shame caught up with me. Yeah. I just pushed right through my mouth. Pushed right through. Would you tell that story? Because I think there there's something in that that's even a a bigger image about what it's like once we learn to live free in ourselves.

Yes. You know, so many just first of all, it wasn't I was this story is not about a podcast. This story was just about living. But do you remember there's an the song is old now, but do you remember, I think it may be Leanne Rimes. I remember Leanne Rimes. But I Hope You Dance. I don't remember that. Oh, it's a really great song. Never been a big country fan. Well, I don't know if I have or not, but it's just You quote a lot of country songs. I quote a lot of songs. Manly from La Mancha. One of the best songs ever written. Yeah. Yeah, Lion King. Definitely. Yeah. It's like, well, Lion King is like look hard. So musicals and country songs, are your musical repertoire, Steve? That's what you

got me. I just, I love spa music. You do look so smart. Oh my gosh, I do. I really do. Anything that has something plaintive in it, actually. I love the longing notes. I like the the pull into, you know, the the quiet places. Yeah. You know, it brings memories. You know? But anyway, we were we we were all of the both brothers, sister, nieces, nephews at this big wedding. My my nephew is getting married in the Delta, and it it's it's it's Bellemeade out in the field. That's what this this is. I mean, this we were at a place called the Baby Doll, which is where a film a movie was made years and years ago. And it's it frankly, it's just this old, cotton farm. K. But, anyway, they just a giant tent, dance floor, like I say, all the family was there, and they had a band from Memphis came in. It's a soul band. Oh, wow. Motown, started Motown. So that's that's my. See, there I am. Since Motown, you see you had me Motown. Sorry. You remember before it's expanded? Oh, oh, oh, oh. Gotta go back to 1965. That's Temptations, Shilights. Oh, gosh. Yes. I'm there. It's amazing how many songs Carole King wrote that are, you know, Motown or that territory hits, the soul music. Oh, it's amazing. Keep going, right? I did not know that. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure it's wholly relevant either. Oh, I think it is. Every woman in America had the Tapestry album at one time. You're familiar with that, right? No. You're

also made a Joanie Chachi reference last night at the Evening We Say Chill that bombed except for one person laughing. I looked at her and I thought, okay, you're 50. We do joke about that. And it's like, I don't know. If jokes don't last, you go, you're getting the shit. Oh, well, actually, you know I guess so. But you even asked who who's a popular or a well known actor or actress. Yeah. And somebody said and I thought I was thinking Brad Pitt. And then I asked one of my nieces about Brad Pitt. She said, Oh, yeah, I've heard of him. Like whenever you've heard of Brad Pitt, he's just like He was in that Benjamin Buttons movie. I don't know. Brad Pitt's still there, but he's 50, Brad Pitt's 53 years old. So anyway. So you're dancing. No, I'm not dancing yet. But, you know, like you said, the the first few went out. I said to Sonya, look, let's go dance. Look, I'm just doing this tonight, Sonya. And, you know, I said, this is happening. This is gonna happen. Because I can feel it. I'm I'm gonna dance. I'm gonna but not just like I'm gonna go out and dance. I'm going to dance tonight. And that song I was talking about, LeAnn Rimes, it really is about, I hope that you will not miss what you could do while you're imagining what could happen. That you that you that you don't just spectate, you go ahead and participate. But once you participate, it is gonna put a person in a position, if anybody's watching, of being assessed, judged, criticized, or maybe affirmed or complimented or identified. I mean, it can, you know If I was a good dancer, I would be dancing everywhere. Oh, if I could sing, I would I'd go to the mall to buy some shoes, and I'd be dancing. Oh, cool. Oh, yes. Like going down. But And you would yeah. Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. Dancing is infectious and singing is infectious, and I think anybody who attempts to do something that's non harming creative is attractive. I mean, we're we're all drawn to it, and so many of us are just hesitant to to go ahead and do it because we're not experts or like you say, if I could really dance, I'd do it all the time because I'm that good. How about, E. B. White wrote a a guy who wrote Charlotte's Web, did an wrote an essay. I think he used to write for the New Yorker, but one of his essays said anything worth doing is worth doing poorly. Yeah. And he loved playing the piano, but he would never was accomplished in it, but he said, I'll do it anyway because I love to play it. So anyway, we you know, I just I just said the song. She said, I'm not going out there. There aren't enough people out there yet. And and she said, you go ahead and go. I'm like, I'm not going out there by myself. But I already talked to my brothers. Hey, as soon as it hits just right, we're going to do our thing. Right? Because it's family. I mean, it's just all of us together. So finally, I go out, and I'm telling you from the time I went out until the time the the the evening ended, it's just like we danced and danced and danced. Did you get sweaty? Like, sweaty dance? I I I've got embarrassed sweaty because I had a white, you know, suit suit, taut, really looked sharp that night. And then it finally broke down into just some old country boy just soaking wet. It looks like it came out it came out of the cotton field. There's always that guy at the wedding too that will take the dress shirt off and has, like, the wife beater t shirt on. Not me. Is that when you No. Unfortunately, they didn't have a t shirt on. Yeah. And I did not put my tie around my head. Somebody said you need to, but I went I went to the restroom and I looked in the mirror, and later in the night, and and we'd been dancing for so long, just everything. And, I looked at me and went, oh my gosh, I am soaking wet. I'm talking about like I'd been in a pool. Yeah. And, there was a woman there who later in the evening was talking to my sister-in-law, and Sonny was in and off the dance floor, and then I'd dance with my brothers and sister and just, you know, nieces and nephews, just like a big, what is it, mosh pit? Mosh pit, yeah. We were just doing it. And this woman said, oh, I've read oh, that's that's that's Chip Dodd. I've read his books, and we've done his Bible study at our church. And and then she said to my sister-in-law, I wanna get my get my picture with your drunk brother-in-law.

And and Harriet He's no known how to drink since 'eighty two years. Since 1988. I mean, like, no. And, Harriet said, he doesn't drink. And she the woman looked at Harriet and said She was disappointed. She said, he's he's not drunk? He's he's doing that. And and she said, no. He he doesn't drink. She goes and they went back and forth, like, no. Really. Seriously. She really, like, maybe preferred the idea of you being drunk and looking that way. Exactly. There's no way you're out there doing that unless you're drunk. And then she said, so he's just, like like, doing that in the spirit. She'd make it religious. Yeah. I was like, well, here he said, okay. Yeah. He's doing the spirit. Or maybe he's just dancing. I mean, he's just letting letting himself dance. Could not imagine a person free enough of shame Yeah. That wasn't intoxicated.

Right. But it wasn't foolishness. No. You were just dancing. I was just dancing. I wasn't trying to stand out or, like, everybody move off the dance floor, let me have it. You're you're chimped out. Like, you can't not stand out. Yeah. I'm a little tall. You're a little big. I'm a little tall. So I just said you you were noticeable. And then you have, like, an aura outside of your tallness that that commands That I don't know about. Oh, that that's that's That I have no idea. I'm not sure you don't. I'm not sure you don't. Do you think I do? No. I'm I'm sure you don't. No. I Like, I don't. You know, in fact, Tennyson, my oldest son, said, he said, peep people don't know that, like, if they've read The Voice of the Heart or somebody says something to me, people are actually surprised that you actually are surprised. I mean, I'm being very serious that maybe I don't know how to think like what you just said. I can't do it. So I think I'll end up putting myself in situations that I'll look like see, I assume I'm, like, five, you know, x and You have some kind of body dysmorphia. Wait. Nobody's noticing me, you know, but I am six four. So Yeah. Sonia said later, I thought this was wonderful. She said, I you know, life gets serious, and we go on and do our routines and maybe even bubbles or ruts or but she said, that's I saw you that night. So we had been, like, at a a dance like that, and we, you know, danced on cruises and stuff like that. But she said, that's who I married. That's who I remember, that you just go out there. And, she said, and that's how come I've always been so scared. So she had this attraction, and yet, how far out will it go? She I remember she said, but that's what's so scary is that you'll go, but I don't know if you'll go too far.

Yeah. You know, that kind of thing. Yeah. So I'm attracted. I'm picturing it in my mind, like I'm watching you and her. Yeah. She said, I'm so attracted, which she didn't say attracted, but she said that's who her. That's what she was communicating, it was attraction. Like, that's who I'm married, but it's scary to know to know that there's that much, I don't know, living or life or Is it different is it different now? Like, you know? Oh, you know what? By the way, I went out excuse me, but I went out there too because I'm 59. That's about the same. Oh, good. Yeah. Is it different now at 59 I swear. Dancing I swear. Than it was at 25? Yeah. I'm a lot better. Oh, I'm sure you

are. I'm sure you think you are. But you know what? I can imagine you're a good dancer, actually. Well, I mean, good enough. Sonya said I was. Well. But Sonya doesn't lie to you. We know that that was actually Well, they won't lie to me. So she said, she said, I didn't know you had so many moves. Oh, you're digging deep in my back. I went back. Did you do the splits? No. No. No. No. No. It wasn't foolish. It was dancing. If you can do the splits, it's not just No. I didn't throw myself on the floor. No breakdancing. No spinning. No worm. Okay. Good. No, no, no, no. It was just But how is it different now at 59 and at 25? But I thought, look, I'm 59, I wanna dance. I'm 59, I can dance. I'm 59,

say, what what am I doing spending any more time wondering what people who are scared like I've always been of doing that? So I mean, I don't remember anybody looking or saying or just either you dance or you don't. I mean, I wasn't looking around to see who was watching. But certainly part of that's a function of your age. Yeah. But there's something else in that too. There's another kind of maturity that's happened in you around that. You know, I don't know, Stephen. I guess there is a maturity, but it's maybe even getting beyond Yeah, I guess maturing some ways beyond everyone else's approval. And I know that we all suffer from extraordinary approval addiction. I mean, to me, that's like a thought. I've been thinking like

even moving beyond that and maturing into a place of really loving yourself, like for who you are. Not just what they think, but I really like me. Like I'm really okay with me. I Nah, you know what? No, I would say maybe Damn. I was hoping that No. No. No. Before it got there, give me hope to get there one day. No. It's more like in spite of Yeah. Whether how much, like me or in spite of how much I care about me. It's that this is what I wanna do. I wanna dance. I want to whatever it happens to be. It's enough. Well, you know, I've got a novel out called Anthem to the Invisible Oh, I know. That I like. You love it. No. I do. I think it's fabulous. It's not an allegory than a novel. Well, it's an allegory, allegorical novel, but it's an allegory without a doubt. And I like it, and we can actually say there's not a great readership for it. But the story is worth the read and worth the trouble. And I know it takes time to to let oneself No. It's a very meaningful story. Yes, it is. But I want to do it. And so it means letting the critics criticize. I've gone ahead and decided to participate, not just spectate, but participate. And guess what? Something worth doing is worth doing poorly from the context of this is what I wanna do and made to do. I mean, this is a surgery. And

as I opened the podcast, hearing that story last week or a couple weeks ago when you got home from the wedding, it really did encourage me to step out and risk dancing poorly in order to have fun. So I really do think there's an infection when people start to move out and be themselves, and move into the freedom of being themselves, the playfulness of being themselves, and the clumsiness of being themselves, that it really is a catching movement. Other people catch on and want to be part of that thing. And conversely, when people hide, blame shift, have contempt, judgment, that's also culturally infectious, you know, where people stop telling the truth. So I think it's awesome. I hope that you continue to dance. I hope that I continue to dance. And that all of our podcast listeners also may find a wedding this summer to dance at, you know? Yes. And enjoy it and enjoy it. Yes. And the freedom to enjoy themselves. Yeah. It's just one song. I hope you dance. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

I hope I hope that you and I have grown enough or become careless enough, in terms of the former control over us of other people's opinions, a public opinion. Mhmm. And this is just about dancing. This isn't, like I said, surgery. When it comes time for the professional movement, whatever that is, to take life seriously, then do so. But we get so trapped in the seriousness of life when it's time for fun, we remain the same, robotic or fear based, whatever. Fear based, shame based. Fear based, shame based, yeah. Performance based. But anyway, I had a great time. Yeah, it was a great workout. I had a great time, and I got a great workout. And I wasn't drunk, but I did go over to a giant fan and unbuttoned my shirt so I could blow through it. I'm sure that didn't look quite right. My friend Ben Howard sent me a a text this week

of a of a writer about this idea of if we could live life now, like, with the wisdom that we're gonna gain when we're old, like the wisdom to be free. Mhmm. I'll just read a couple of parts of the of the text. I'd like to make more mistakes next time. I'll climb more mountains and swim more rivers. I would eat more ice cream and less beans. Mhmm. You know? Mhmm. I perhaps have more actual troubles, but I'd have fewer imaginary ones. You know? And and she and she goes on to say, if I had my life to live over, I would start barefoot earlier in the spring and stay that way later into the fall, and I would go to more dances. I would ride more merry-go-rounds, and I would pick more daisies.

Oh, gosh. See, that that's very touching. You know, there was a, an essayist, Irma Bombeck, I guess one of those other people other people no one remembers. I remember her. I know, but you know what I'm saying? We you know, we could you you dropped that Chachi joke. I barely hung onto it. But you spoke to that and very few people remember, but everyone can resonate with the words and we didn't know the author's name. But Erma Lambach wrote, I remember reading an essay of hers years ago when she was in her 80s. And we don't need to look back from that context of wisdom that really becomes regret. Do you know what I'm saying? The wisdom of I wish I had, it was now the regret I didn't. Right. So, yeah, I think it's important for us to go ahead and take some risks that can lead to failure that do not need to be driven by libertinism or lust, but the heart's craving for going ahead and stepping out and fully participating. Being alive. Yeah. Being alive. Right? That allegorical

mob alone. Even as simple as there's a person you wanna say I love you to that you say I love you to, or I'm sorry to, or get outside the confines of your own shame and fear and what if isms and step into the what can be. Or maybe get in the bed on the other side once or Yeah. Live crazy. You know what? As you read those things, barefoot earlier in the spring, eat more ice cream and less beans, it it really it reminded me of it doesn't necessarily have to be loud because that reminded me what how how Sonya lives. Sonya actually is is kind of a, almost like a hippie. And yet She's a little bit of a hippie. You have vegetables like on a tower in your kitchen. Yeah. Yeah. She we have lettuce in our house. Yeah. It's weird. But but Yeah. And oils. But but you you would not know that she's a hippie unless you knew her. Right. But so it doesn't have to be advertised. You know, like I'm dancing and you talk about dancing. People can see. But living how you're made to isn't just a public presentation. It's you actually touching life, and it touching you back. Instead of waiting on it in some theater, getting a vicarious experience of it, seeing a movie saying you've experienced your life is not true. Living your life is the movie.

This is Stephen James with Sage Hill. Thanks for listening to the Sage Hill podcast with Dr. Chip Dodd. If you or someone you know is looking for a new resource for daily meditation or quiet time, I really wanna encourage you to look into a new series of free ebooks that the Sage Hill staff has developed featuring some of the thoughts of Dr. Chip Dodd. You can find out more about the keeping heart series of ebooks at Sage Hill resources dot com slash keeping heart. Also, if you're on the front lines of working with people, we'd love for you to attend the next Sage Hill training that begins in September. This is an in-depth experiential training to help you bring your heart to the work you are called to do. If you're a teacher, ministry leader, therapist, pastor, or other people helping professional, and you'd like to be better equipped to engage people in a transformational way, we really want you to learn more and attend. You can visit sainthilltraining.com to find out more information.